Top 3s: Wrongful Convictions

Brittney Sherman: 00:00:40

It's uh, it's your ladies of Scarletto ever,

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but we're not ladies of Scarletto.

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We got to start that over.Over.

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We're so rusty.

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Uh, all right.

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Hey, Scott lottos.

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We are your ladies of Scarlet.

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So it's been a minute.

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We, um, we took some time.

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We, we took a little break.

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We had, I think, finished 35 episodes, but, um, we, we rested up

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and now we're, we're coming back.

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So welcome back to the routine, Sonia,

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and I'm so excited about the routine.

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I have to say.

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Um, well, two things first off.

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You know, it's been crazy lately with the COVID-19 thing and working

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from home and Brittany, you know, this too, we've been slammed.

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And, um, when I look at my life and I kind of think, oh, I need to

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really like find my happy place.

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And then I, I go and I sit down and I watch a bunch of documentaries

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about true crime and murder.

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And I'm like, this is my happy place.

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Yeah, it's a little disturbing, but it truly is, you know, I've missed it.

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I miss talking to you about this stuff.

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I mean, we talk all the time, but not about anything, you know, enjoyable

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question, the whatever, like air quotes, but you know, just, I think things

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we're passionate about plus, you know, I miss the banter, so I'm so excited.

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We are back.

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We did take a bit of a break, um, you know, to catch our breaths

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so much going on and sometimes.

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You were happening in the world that I felt I just didn't really have.

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Um, I D I didn't need a voice at that moment.

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I thought that it that's, the situations are speaking for themselves.

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So out of respect to those situations, I thought it was kind of a good

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idea for us to take a moment and to look around and what was happening.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:32

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:02:33

I agree.

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You know, we, you, you kind of touched on it.

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We were slammed with our regular lives.

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So, um, I felt like I needed an opportunity to step back for a bit.

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I felt like.

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It wasn't the re the right time, the best time to be concentrating

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on this, but, um, I'm, I'm excited.

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Um, I'm really looking forward to getting back.

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I think we're going to have a few changes that will, um, we, we hope you'd like

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that we think will hopefully improve.

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We are working on trying to build our brand a little bit and hopefully

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make Scarlet TCP a little bit.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:03:15

That's right.

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And, um, I'm excited about tonight because in this episode, you know, as we normally

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do for each each record, you know, we record a couple of episodes at a time and

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we usually start, you know, we developed this system where we can really get into

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our group quickly by just having a, sort of a run and gun, top three conversation.

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And, you know, it's just a moment for us to talk about things, um, you

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know, quickly, uh, you know, top line.

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That allows us, you know, just to get warmed up without having too much

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detail and too much reference material.

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And, um, this, I suggested this topic to you and the topic is, I said, you

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know, let's talk about our top three unjust verdicts or what most people

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would call wrongful convictions.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:02

Right.

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I said that in passing because, you know, I had a lot of things on my mind and I

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had been watching some things lately and I, I, one of my favorite documentaries

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about some true crime, true crime situation is, is in particular about that.

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And, um, I, then I started licking my list and it was really hard.

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So my list is actually probably a little different than you're expecting,

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but let's dive right into it.

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Let's do our top three wrongful conduct.

Brittney Sherman: 00:04:30

Well, you can't leave me baited like that.

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So this was your topic.

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You seem to have some unique thoughts.

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So what are you getting.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:04:39

Well, let's go back a little bit because what do

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we mean by wrongful convictions?

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That's like, I thought it best.

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I mean, I wasn't even calling it the wrong thing running.

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I was saying unjust verdicts.

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Right.

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But Bronco convictions, the more appropriate terminology

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and used by most, I.

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I had a hard time, you know, because there's so many, I was really saddened

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by the number of, of, of wrongful convictions and the people who are

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sitting in jail now because of it.

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So I, my choice for my top three is actually just one case.

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And, um, Yeah, I know I had a really hard time trying to figure out who I would put

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on my list because all of the wrongful convictions in my opinion are terrible.

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Right.

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Terrible situations.

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Like, and I didn't want to disrespect any of those other choices, honestly.

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It's not fair for me to say, oh, one's better than the other.

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And in this one, I was like, ah, this is, this is a tough one, but go back

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a little bit to wrongful convictions.

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Colorado sciences attention to a really, really interesting.

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Piece of literature, literature that op-ed piece by John Grisham.

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Right.

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And we know who John Grisham is, world famous attorney writer.

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And he did an amazing job of summarizing the eight reasons for America's

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shameful number of wrongful convictions.

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And he wrote it for the LA times.

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It was written in 2018.

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I would suggest you guys reading it.

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It's so fascinating because he writes like a screenwriter.

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So he writes in a way.

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Really is compelling.

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And so you're entertained by his peace, but he is so right on with it.

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And you know, just a summary of wrongful convictions in the United States.

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I think that right now, the average that's considered, you know, the,

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for wrongful convictions versus other convictions, it's 2%, 10%.

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I feel

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like the phone.

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Yeah, it's a real lot.

Brittney Sherman: 00:06:39

I actually was going to say it's like 10%, which is way, way too many.

Brittney Sherman: 00:06:44

Yeah, no, there, there was a great quote, I think even by Ronald Reagan

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who kind of prided himself on law and order that pretty much said.

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Wrong Cole wrongful conviction is worse than 100 guilty men going free.

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You

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:07:02

Bennet, but it's rampant.

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And, uh, usually, you know, I have to say most of the time.

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We have revolves around people who don't have the ability, the

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financial means or the support in any other way, really, to be able

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to, um, you know, defend themselves.

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They probably got a, a typical, you know, someone assigned

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to their cases and attorney.

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I mean, it's a lot easier to, to defend yourself when you have a lot of money

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and you can afford good representation.

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So that's.

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It is, it really does suck, but, um, the John Grisham piece is really interesting

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and he contributes, uh, You know, the, the number of wrongful convictions to a

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couple of things, you know, his, his top in no particular order, he says are bad

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police work, prosecutorial misconduct, false confessions, faulty eyewitness

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identification, jailhouse snitches, which I don't know why people would think that

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would be really, you know, Uh, okay.

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To when you're, when somebody's life is on the line to listen to someone

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in jail, trying to get a reduced sentence, it's weird, a bad lawyering,

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sleeping judges, meaning just letting things happen and then junk science.

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So it's a really good article if you want to.

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Um, guys want to look at it because I just think John Grisham was really talented.

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And when he writes, um, for the people who really understands

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how to convey that message.

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So now that we talked about wrongful convictions and what

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they are, and we talked about how.

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That are currently happening the percentage anyway, 2% at 10%, but I

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can tell you in the past, I'm sure that that has been much more, especially

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when it comes to people of color or, you know, people who are compromised and

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vulnerable, you know, Yeah, definitely.

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So sorry.

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That was really first.

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That was a whole long intro.

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So I know I even got lost

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number three.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:08:51

Well, I want to talk about my number three, because

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like I said, my number three is actually all three of my, my wrongful

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convictions are from one case.

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Um, and that case is the west Memphis three.

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And again, my choice was this, the specific case really.

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Disturbing to me in so many ways and really well-documented and there are

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every other wrongful conviction is probably as bad or worse, but this one

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just really hit home for me for a variety of reasons you had in 1994 or 1993.

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Three young boys, eight years old to, I think they were in second

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grade murdered horrendously.

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Um, obviously they were tortured.

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There was hard to tell about, you know, sexual abuse and things like that.

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Um, if you don't know this case, I would look into it.

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It's called the west Muslim.

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It's three weapons west, west, Memphis, Arkansas, um, and you know, sleepy

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little town, little country town.

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There were these three, second graders apparently were out,

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you know, doing whatever second graders do, riding their bicycles.

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And, um, someone snatched them, took them to the woods.

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Um, hogtied them.

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It looked like they raped them.

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They mutilated their bodies and then they left them in the Creek bed.

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So what actually ended up happening was one of the boys died by blunt force

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trauma and a variety of other things.

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And.

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The other two boys actually drowned in the Creek bed, but they too were hogtied.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:10:24

And, um, there's an interesting documentary called paradise lost, um,

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about this case because, and it's, I, I will warn everyone too, when you watch.

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If you watch it, there are graphic photos of the children

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and the way that they were found.

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And it's really, really horrifying in this town.

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The small little Bible belt town just didn't know what to do with it.

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So cut to, um, three teenagers, um, that somehow or another got roped into,

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um, the situation as suspects sounds to me like one of them who didn't know

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the other two very well, but knew them.

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You've got the, the three, the three, and this is, these are my three, my three, you

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know, essentially are the three guys who were wrongfully convicted for the crimes.

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And I think it's known now that they were wrongfully convicted.

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I think it's, everybody would agree.

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Um, but I'll go through each of them.

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And then I also want to talk a little bit about the, the little boys that were

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murdered because it's totally terrible.

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Um, but it was really, really hard, so I'll stop there.

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Um, but so that makes.

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I know crazy.

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Right?

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So that makes my number three on my list.

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Now that I gave you some backup by fro shorter, a backstory for the west Memphis

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three, um, E now we'll talk about my number three of the wrongful convictions,

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and that is particular to this case.

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And his name is Jesse Ms.

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Kelly.

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He was 17 years old.

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Um, uh, he came forward somehow.

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With the police either.

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They picked him up.

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I'm not sure how they got him in involved, but they essentially questioned him.

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And got him to confess to the crimes saying that he and two other

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people who are my number two and my number one, um, worked together

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and did this crime committed the crime against these three boys.

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And, um, it was instead, it was part of like a satanic ritual.

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So we'll leave it.

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A couple of things about Jessie, Ms.

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Kelly.

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Um, as, you know, if you, if you go and you look into the case,

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it's, what's interesting is he, he did have a bad reputation.

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I think that he had, um, his IQ was compromised.

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I think he had a very low IQ, which is one of the reasons they say that he was

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easily, um, vulnerable to, you know, being prompted in questioning a confessions and.

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What's crazy about it.

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The Jessie, Ms.

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Kelly Guy, the one who pretty much blew the whistle on these other two

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kids who were became suspects and then were ultimately found guilty.

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They didn't know each other very well.

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So here, you've got a guy saying, Hey, Yeah, me and these two guys,

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we went in, we grabbed these two, three boys and we dragged them into

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the woods and I held them down.

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While these other two guys did these things to this, these, these

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boys, they didn't really know each other, like out of the blue, these

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other two guys get roped into this.

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And, you know, you can kind of see an unfold in the documentary, but

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I will hold, I reserve my number two are in my number one for later.

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But my first is obviously that Jesse Ms.

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Kelly kid.

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You know, who just needed to get the hell out of the police station.

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He was like, he would have said anything at that point.

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And he essentially just said, he said what he had heard about the case.

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And he, many of the things that he noted were wrong.

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So of course, a person at his age, you know, not having representation

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in the room, um, of questionable and, you know, IQ who was easily persuaded.

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You know, he, he didn't have much of a chance.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:53

No, I.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:55

I am not surprised that you picked that topic.

Brittney Sherman: 00:13:58

I know it's one that you are passionate about.

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It's a frustrating topic for anyone that is familiar with it,

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or has watched paradise lost.

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In fact, if I'm not mistaken, it's a three-part docu-series.

Brittney Sherman: 00:14:11

Over the course of like 20 years or something, right?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:14

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:14

It's um, you can watch there is that.

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And then there's also one that it looked like HBO just compiled together

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to make one like 140 minute piece.

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But, um, yeah, so.

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Once they had all of these three pieces because they had recorded

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their shot this over time.

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Um, then they, they did compile it at the time they were

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releasing them individually.

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And there was a lot of people behind, um, the supporting

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these guys and it didn't help.

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I mean, they spent 18 years in jail.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:42

Uh, I mean for crimes that really, they weren't, there was no proof that they did.

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They didn't.

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I mean, other than a couple of things, Led this town to sort of

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call them out and to ostracize them.

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And we'll talk about those, those, those, those reasons later, because

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this is where I can kind of really associate myself with these boys.

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And it's terrifying to think you could just get railroaded like that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:15:05

Okay.

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So my number three is not as deep as that I'll get there, but my number three.

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Is the Hollywood 10.

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And are you familiar with the Hollywood 10 Sonya?

Brittney Sherman: 00:15:24

No, it is

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:15:24

that, that sounds really, it sounds like a bar.

Brittney Sherman: 00:15:29

It's probably not quite what you're thinking of, but

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we're going to, we're going to do a little history lesson right now after

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world war II ended in the late forties.

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There was a Senator from my pride and joy, Wisconsin, Joseph McCarthy,

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who was, uh, went on a very strong anticommunist tear through the country.

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And he set his sights on Hollywood.

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And there were hundreds, if not thousands of Hollywood

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executives, writers, producers.

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That were targeted as being either potential communist, communist

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sympathizers, Stalinists, what have you.

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And while communism was not illegal in America, as you can imagine.

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Extremely frowned on and, uh, not something that anyone wanted

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to be considered a part of.

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So in, uh, 1947, he started, uh, he, Joseph McCarthy, uh, started the

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house un-American committee or who act and subpoenaed 79 people, uh,

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claiming that they were communists.

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Of those 79, ultimately 10 of them would come to stand trial in front of Congress.

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Now, again, it wasn't illegal to be a communist in America, but they

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were ultimately blacklisted and their trial was not for being a communist,

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but for perjuring themselves.

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So.

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10 Hollywood creatives, uh, political ideation, unclear, you know, they D they

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:30

denied ultimately being true communists.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:34

They, they denied being the Stalinists or supportive of the Soviet union, but

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:42

they were determined to have lied to Congress and perjured themselves, and

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:47

were sentenced to eight months in federal.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:52

And that was the star of what many people can still hear of and are familiar

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:59

with of the Hollywood black list.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:01

Uh, and so the Hollywood blacklist is.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:06

An unofficial list at the time, it was a real list of, uh, at this

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:11

time it was a list of communists or communist sympathizers who worked

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:15

in Hollywood, who were no longer allowed to work in Hollywood.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:19

A blacklisting is still a thing where you're doing.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:23

Spread around town and you essentially are no longer allowed to unofficially

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:28

no longer allowed to work and you're on hireable, but this was the start

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:33

of the black list system through what many consider an unjust trial

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:41

in front of Congress of ultimately 10 influential creatives that may or may

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:47

not have been communists in a frequent.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:52

Wow.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:53

So what w what happened?

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:56

They were, they were found guilty of perjury.

Brittney Sherman: 00:18:59

The only crime they legally could have been found guilty of for saying

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:03

they weren't communists in front of Congress, even though under oath, even

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:07

though they were felt that they were communists and so lying to Congress,

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:11

and they spent eight months in prison.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:15

Never were able to get their jobs or regain their jobs back.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:19

Um, there was a, I haven't seen this, but there was for you really old

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:25

fashion, Hollywood nerds, kind of like myself who kind of wants to see this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:30

Uh, there was a 16 millimeter documentary shot about it in the fifties, but

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:36

then there's also a movie called one of the Hollywood 10 that focused

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:40

specifically on one screen writer.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:42

Who fought the hardest to try and proclaim his innocence despite being found guilty.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:48

And when was

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:49

this?

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:51

Uh, late forties, early fifties, uh, it was throughout what is known

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:55

as the who act period, the house on American activities committee

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:59

periods, blood by Joseph McCarthy.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:01

And it was kind of a tirade that he went on to rid the country of any

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:07

potential communist sympathizers.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:09

And he said his focus on Hollywood and the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:12

Hollywood system.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:14

My feelings about that era in another episode.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:17

But, um, there was a lot of shady stuff that happened around that time.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:21

I mean, it was, um, it was the wild west in Hollywood.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:27

Okay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:27

Onto your number two, even though you already kind of gave up.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:31

I did.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:32

Sorry.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:32

So back to the west Memphis three case, uh, I sorta Terentino's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:37

this whole process by the way.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:39

So I get it, uh, by the way.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:41

Um,

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:44

yeah, no, for sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:45

Yeah, for sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:46

Um, so my number two was Jason Baldman, who was another one of the mid west

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:52

Memphis three in Arkansas, 1994.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:56

Convicted of, uh, murdering being a participant in murdering three second

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:02

graders and mutilating their bodies.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:05

And he was sentenced to life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:08

He as well as the other boys, eventually after 18 years, um, they

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:16

did some kind of plea deal on using the Alford plea and they were released,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:20

but ultimately ruin their life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:22

I mean, these guys were in jail from being 17 years old, you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:26

know, up until 18 years later.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:28

So their lives had changed dramatically because of this.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:31

What was interesting about Jason, Bob?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:34

Again, the other guy who ratted on them, the, the confession or the,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:39

the, whatever we're going to call it, the guy who had some problems and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:43

confessed under pressure, he didn't really, I mean, he didn't know them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:47

They weren't close friends.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:47

He didn't know Baldwin nor did he know the other suspect as well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:51

Um, ballroom was interesting.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:53

He, you know, he, while, while the other guys, the other two Westminster was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:57

three guys, they did get in some troubles and vandalism, some shoplifting, um,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:03

Baldwin actually got really good grades.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:06

Jason Baldwin was not a dumb kid.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:08

He was a smart kid.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:09

He was a really good artist.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:11

Apparently he was talented.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:13

And, um, I guess he was going to go on to college, to study graphic design.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:18

Um, w when I unveil my number one, which you guys already know if you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:22

know the west Memphis three, we'll talk a little bit about those things

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:25

that they ha they were had in common.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:27

Um, but yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:29

Uh, my, again, my number two, Jason Baldwin, poor kid, 16 years old,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:34

you know, 17 goes to jail for what he thinks is the rest of his life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:38

Um, for a crime, he really, really didn't commit that appears to be

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:41

well-proven that he didn't commit.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:42

So again, you know, a travesty of justice and a really sad situation.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:50

All right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:51

My number two is Ruben hurricane Carter.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:57

Oh, I first learned about and, uh, became, he became.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:03

Probably pretty famous because of a Bob Dylan song called the hurricane.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:10

You know that on ya?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:11

I hate Bob Dylan.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:13

I know you do.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:14

That's how I, oh, God, like that was that's.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:17

I don't, there's no comparison the way you could ask me that I'm like, I that's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:21

the furthest from my, my, my world of music and I don't mind folk music.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:26

I just, Bob Dylan's voice just makes me

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:28

that's crazy.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:29

You know, I had a teacher one time compared Bob Dylan's.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:32

As the most successful worst singer of all time, specifically referring to.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:42

I'd probably agree with that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:44

Uh, but he's a hell of a songwriter and his, his song.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:49

The hurricane is an eight minute plus song about Rubin Carter, who

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:55

was a middleweight boxer in the 1960s in Patterson, New Jersey.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:01

And he happened to be at a neighboring bar.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:06

To where a armed robbery and shooting that led to the death of

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:11

a couple of patrons took place.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:14

And he wa the witnesses claimed that they saw two, maybe three black men

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:23

that were a, the VSA lens and a similar time Carter and two other men were

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:30

leaving a neighboring bar and then were.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:34

No, doubtedly trailed by police.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:37

And at this time, Carter was not, he didn't have a clean slate.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:42

He was dishonorably discharged from the military for, uh, disciplinary reasons.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:50

He had charges against him for abuse, but he was cleaning up his act and he was.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:00

Pace to become, to challenge for the world boxing middleweight

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:05

championship of the world.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:07

When he was pulled over after dropping a friend off and arrested, ultimately

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:13

charged and was convicted of murder.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:19

Now, the witnesses who claim to see, uh, that the shooters were black.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:25

Did not pin Carter to the scene.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:28

They did not identify him as a suspect.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:32

There was a female witness who called attention to a different suspect,

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:40

but that suspect said he was just robbing the place and he wasn't

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:44

responsible for any of the deaths.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:47

And the, I will, I seriously have to say.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:52

He ultimately, uh, was released from prison in the nineties, uh,

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:57

because the witnesses recanted and there was evidence to support that

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:00

he was never actually at that bar.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:02

And seriously though, like that Bob Dylan song can sum up this case.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:08

So, well, In eight minutes and then there's a 1999 movie

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:13

starring Denzel Washington.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:14

That's about the same case that I've seen parts of.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:17

And it's pretty good, but it's, it's really a case that

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:20

I've always found fascinating, particularly because of that song.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:23

And I seriously would recommend anyone.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:26

Who's got eight minutes to do the dishes or running errands or something.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:31

Just throwing that song.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:33

You will get a really great history lesson.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:35

I

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:35

think I saw that movie.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:37

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:38

Did you see it?

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:39

I've seen parts of it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:42

I don't know what, I didn't see the whole thing I

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:46

remember.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:46

I know I do too.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:49

All right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:50

Well, very.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:52

So what I mean, what was the end result?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:54

Did he get convicted?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:55

Did he die?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:56

No.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:57

No, he was, he was convicted, but, uh, he's

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:00

served like 20 years in prison.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:02

And then.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:03

Was released after witnesses, ultimately recanted.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:07

And there was actually really no evidence to support that he was,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:12

oh, well, that's awesome.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:13

Wait to wait 20 freaking years.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:15

Oh yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:16

It's terrible.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:16

How do you live with yourself even?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:18

I mean, I would doubt myself like day one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:22

When it comes to someone's life in my hands.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:25

I mean, that is on the list.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:27

You know what I mean?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:27

I think that S Isen things are deceiving, you know, when you're in

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:33

a moment and you think you're seeing something, or you thought you saw

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:36

something really clearly, but, you know, I mean, how well did you see it?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:40

You know, it's just, it's, it's so tough.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:44

All right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:45

Well, I like that one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:46

So you've got one left, right?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:48

And your, your number, your, no, one's going to.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:50

All right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:51

So you, uh, you take us away for your

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:53

number one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:53

My number one is again, one of the west Memphis three, um, probably

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:59

the most well-known Damien Echols.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:01

He was 18 years old when the crime occurred.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:04

So of course he was, uh, an adult, um, and tried accordingly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:09

And I think the other two boys were as well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:11

I didn't think that they really cared at that point, um, because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:14

the crime was so horrendous.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:16

Um, Damien Echols.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:18

Uh, from a poor family, he didn't attend school very often.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:23

He had a girlfriend, they ran off.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:26

Um, I don't know, they ran and broke into some trailer and then

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:29

equals was charged with burglary.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:31

So he had some, you know, stuff.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:33

I mean, he wasn't like a violent criminal.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:34

He was just a dumb kid.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:36

And I think when you watch paradise lost, you'll see that it's, what's terrifying

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:42

to me a bit when I watched that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:45

It really does appear to me in a lot of the video that they shot

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:48

at him that he doesn't have.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:52

Um, he doesn't have any feelings about the situation.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:57

Um, not that he doesn't have feelings about his own innocence,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:01

but he, and a lot of people say, well, why would he have remorse?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:05

He didn't do it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:06

But.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:07

Respect for the situation is what I think was a bit missing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:10

And that really offended people.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:13

Um, when you're talking about a crime that does this, this, let me just see these

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:16

little boys and what happened to them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:19

And, um, it, it was, you know, really, really horrendous and he, um, appeared

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:25

in court sometimes to be indifferent.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:27

He.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:29

Uh, I mean, he just didn't take it seriously.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:32

And I don't know if any of them took it seriously.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:34

I mean, obviously the guy who confessed, he didn't take it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:37

seriously when he was confessing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:38

He just wanted to get out of there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:40

But, um, Damien Echols, you know, he was the perfect Patsy for this crime,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:46

um, in Arkansas at the time, because again, it was such a Bible belt and this

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:51

was a kid who, you know, later on, I think they figured out that he had some

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:55

mental, um, Deficiencies as well yet.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:58

Um, you know, grandiose and persecute, persecutory, delusions, auditory, and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:03

visual hallucinations, disordered thought processes, substantial lack of insight

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:07

and chronic incapacitating mood swings.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:10

Um, you know, he had some stuff going on and, um, he it's just really perplexing,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:17

you know, I think that he thought it was a joke and I think he later, he even tried.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:22

Say that he thought it was a joke that didn't take it seriously,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:25

but it's when you watch it, it's, it's kind of offensive.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:28

If you're sitting in a room full of people watching this trial go down

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:32

against these, these suspects and they aren't taking it seriously, or he

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:36

doesn't appear to be taking it seriously.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:39

And isn't, isn't at least thoughtful about the situation it's, um, you really

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:43

dislike him and I'll tell you why.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:46

I have an, uh, a feeling, an association with Damian.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:51

And I don't not necessarily about this, but one of the big reasons as

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:54

these three kids were sort of targeted was because they were the poor kids.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:58

They were the dark kids.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:01

And when I say dark, I mean, they were, you know, they weren't the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:05

jocks or the popular kids, you know, they were the outliers, they

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:08

listened to heavy metal music.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:10

They wore black clothes, they had black fingernails.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:13

I mean, they were, you know, The people associated them with being goth,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:17

even though Jason Baldwin was a goth.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:19

I mean, he was just a heavy metal kid.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:20

He had a little mullet, like no big damn deal.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:22

Um, I mean, it was really weird, but Damien Echols

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:25

definitely had played that part.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:27

And then of course they found nonsense, um, you know, at Damien Echols

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:31

house, which they thought proved the point, they found like the satanic

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:34

Bible and some other literature.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:37

And he had said at one point that he was in a WCA.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:40

They hadn't read his binder and some of the poems he wrote and yeah, they

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:43

were a little dark, but I have to say, you know, what attracted me to this

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:47

case in particular was because I really felt like that they were ostracized

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:51

from their community because of those reasons they were considered punks,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:55

um, satanic, you know, this was all about a set, a satanic ritual, um, So

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:02

unfair, these guys are kids, right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:04

And they're being persecuted like that just for being, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:08

not part of the popular group.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:10

And I felt like that when I was young, you know, I definitely, my crowd was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:13

a little more, uh, well, definitely more on the outlier side of things.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:18

And, you know, we, Hey, we wore black w who cares.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:21

Like, I don't know if that was like a big deal for us.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:24

It wasn't like that defined us, but we, you know, We definitely didn't have that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:29

You know, I mean, when you're a teenager and you're not part of the popular group,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:32

you're anything, if you're anything but the popular group, you're probably not

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:36

enjoying yourself that much, unless you're completely oblivious because you always,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:40

those, the people who are the popular kids make sure, you know, you're not.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:45

And that's where I feel for these guys, because it's so true.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:49

They, they love it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:50

They enjoy it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:51

It's like, you know who, I mean, if they didn't bother you, it wouldn't

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:54

be one thing, but I know how it is.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:56

They do bother you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:57

You know, they make, you know, all the time that you are not part

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:00

of the group, you do not fit in.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:02

Um, and it it's crappy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:04

So, you know, this happened in 19.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:07

Three, I think the, the murders and they were convicted in 1994, that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:11

would, that's not that many years after I graduated from high school.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:14

So it was probably around that same time, but it was, you know, I, I thought

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:18

that really was a bummer for those guys.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:19

And so that's why there was a lot of support behind these guys, um, in,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:25

especially in the heavy metal community.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:27

Like I think Metallica allowed them to use like their music

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:29

for free and the paradigm.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:31

Documentary.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:32

I mean, there was a big following, like I had heard about west

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:35

Memphis three for a long time.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:36

I mean, you know, because you've got, you know, once the misfits get

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:40

together and there's enough of them, then the misfits are the majority

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:44

and then shit kind of goes down.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:45

And that's what happened was that everybody who had felt like.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:48

An ever, you know, kind of banded together and said, no, we can't let this

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:51

happen to these guys because this is a circumstance that we could have been

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:54

in, in the right, at the right time.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:56

But, um, that is my number.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:58

Number one was Damien Echols and man, some terrible, these guys look in,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:02

these guys were in jail for eight.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:03

Years, 18 years from being teenagers.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:06

So they grew up in jail, which is horrifying and terrible things happened

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:09

to them while they were in jail.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:11

I mean, Damien Nichols, he was raped, you know, they were, it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:15

was there, there, you know, what happens to child killers in jail?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:19

You know, child molesters in jail, not good things, you know, I mean, they're.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:24

They're in particular, they're very much targeted, you know, so, and these guys

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:29

were teenagers, they were young, so I really doubt they could defend themselves.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:33

But, um, again, take a look at paradise loss.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:35

It's a really interesting, um, documentary for sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:38

And you can look at it in the pieces or you can look at it as a whole.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:41

There's some crazy characters in that show as well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:43

It's, uh, you know, I kept thinking, Melissa, some of us was in Tennessee

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:47

and Memphis is in Tennessee, but this is actually Arkansas,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:50

which is a different flavor.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:52

Uh, folk.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:53

So take a look, but that's my top three, Brittany, what's your number one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:57

Okay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:57

So my number one, you could call number one, you

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:02

could call number one through five.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:04

You could even call number one through 10 because my number

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:08

one is the central park five.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:12

That's a good one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:14

That is a good

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:14

one.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:15

The central park five are five teenage boys who were a accused

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:25

of accused and convicted.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:27

I should say of assault, robbery, riot.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:33

Attempted murder, rape and sexual abuse.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:38

And they ranged in the ages of 14 to 16.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:43

And this is a, an event that took place on April 19th, 1989 in central park,

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:51

New York, between 9:00 PM to 10:00 PM on a woman named Tricia Mellie.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:59

And.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:00

Uh, these young boys who, um, were just kinda hanging out were really,

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:10

I mean, they're truly innocent kids.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:14

Truly, um, so much so that one of the boys, the youngest

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:21

one still hadn't hit puberty.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:24

So his, uh, the crime of rape was clearly not possible for him.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:31

These boys were taken in for questioning that night.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:36

They were held without their parents.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:39

They were promised things like.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:44

Food drinks, the ability to go home in order in exchange for confession.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:52

So these immature young kids of horse.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:57

Which we all know, having seen plenty of documentaries of true

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:02

crime series, listening to enough podcasts like this know that complying

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:07

with, without a parent or legal representative is the worst possible

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:13

situation for someone to be put in.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:15

And of course they, uh, their confessions were held up, taken

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:21

to prison and are taken to court and they were sentenced to prison.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:25

So.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:26

The reason I say five, or there are up to 10 because that same

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:32

night in central park, there were other events that took place.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:36

And there were actually five other teenagers that were indicted for.

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:43

Uh, assault and attacks on other persons, but it's these five boys in

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:52

particular that are referred to as the central park five that are, uh,

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:57

they were the ones that were held and convicted of rape and sexual assault.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:07

And, um, four were ultimately convicted.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:11

One was, uh, convicted on a lesser charge, but it was 16.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:16

So he was tried as an adult.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:19

All five of them were charged or convicted and sentenced to up to

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:24

15 years in prison and ultimately served between seven and eight years.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:31

They were natural.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:34

Uh, found not guilty.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:37

And, um, their convictions were vacated in 2002.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:43

It was an extremely, uh, uproarious event.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:49

I was too young to remember the event, but I can look back and read

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:55

articles and watch footage of it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:38:57

And there was, there was a, um, Uh, a cry out for justice against them because

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:08

there was so much evidence that was incorrectly mounted against them, that

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:13

they never had a shot at a fair trial.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:16

And it's, uh, there's a Netflix series and I, I want to call it

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:22

a great Netflix series by Ava DuVernay called when they see us.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:28

But I hold on calling.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:30

Great.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:31

Not because it isn't, but because I had such a hard time watching it, I

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:35

literally watched the first episode and the treatment of these innocent

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:41

young, naive boys disturbed me so much.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:46

I could not bring myself to watch the rest of it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:50

And I feel for the victim in this case too, because she was so badly

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:55

battered and bruised and raped.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:58

She could not identify who attacked her.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:02

So her assailant ultimately was never found.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:06

She's obviously the victim in this case, in addition to these kids,

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:11

but she never got justice and these kids paid a price for something that

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:16

they never had anything to do with.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:18

And naive Lee admitted to committing.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:21

Just because they were looking for an out in the middle of

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:25

the night, trying to get home.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:28

That is awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:29

I have been meaning to watch that show or that series.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:32

And, um, I know the subject matter is really tense and sensitive.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:36

So I've been putting it off.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:38

I have to be honest with you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:39

I'm sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:39

It's awesome.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:40

I love her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:40

I love the director, um,

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:43

because it is so tense.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:45

I, like I said, it made me so angry.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:48

I couldn't keep watching it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:49

I needed to get back to it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:50

I need to do it justice to finish watching it, but it really pulled at me.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:55

And really, it really got to me and upset me about the treatment

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:00

that, that we see on screen.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:02

That is true to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:03

life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:03

What, um, so what happened?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:05

What did, what happened with this guys?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:07

Did they like, let them go.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:08

I mean, what was the.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:10

So they, they all served their time, uh,

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:13

between six and eight years.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:15

And then in 2002, they, uh, petitioned and succeeded in having

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:20

their, their charges vacated.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:24

Great.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:25

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:26

That's such

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:27

bullshit.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:28

Oh, it, it, yeah, it is.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:29

It's just, it's, it's disgusting.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:32

It's a horrible tragedy and miscarriage of the justice system.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:39

What's that, I'm sorry for suggesting this topic, by the way,

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:44

really started off on a downer.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:46

I know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:46

I'm so sorry.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:47

I was thinking about it and was looking at my list and then I'm like,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:51

why don't I just Google, you know, wrongful convictions, the multitude.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:56

I was, I was, I was overwhelmed and I couldn't, I, it would take me

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:00

weeks to read through all of them.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:02

Um, the bigger ones, you know, I mean, I think that the exonerations are

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:06

going up, but you know, th the need for exoneration shouldn't happen either.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:11

Um, but man, you know, you're, you're going to choose the top three next.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:14

It's all you

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:16

I'll try and be a little more lighthearted.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:19

I w I will say, you know, to your point about exonerating, Going off and having

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:25

a sentences vacated, you know, a lot of credit goes to the innocence project or

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:29

projects who dedicates themselves to.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:33

Going out there taking on cases, pro bono for wrongly convicted felons and

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:39

doing everything they can to return to trial, to overturn the cases based on

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:46

evidence that was either missed or skipped over or just ignored at the time that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:56

The convictions happened.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:57

And so they really deserve

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:58

a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:59

lot of credit.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:59

Yeah, no, they think God, there are people out there who are supporting those

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:03

causes and you know, it's again, you know, it's, there's so many of them, so

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:07

it's so hard to get their voices heard, but I'm thankful that there's something

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:10

in place to, to help these folks.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:12

Um, but the goal would be to reduce this number percentage greatly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:17

You know, I don't think that 10% is acceptable.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:20

It's a terrible amount is not acceptable.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:24

Yep.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:25

All right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:26

Scarlet as well.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:27

There's our, uh, our, our top three for this week.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:31

So our top three wrongful convictions.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:34

Um, after that, I need to, I need to cool down a little bit.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:37

I know

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:39

I'm all right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:40

I know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:41

All right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:42

Thanks, Carlitos.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:44

Deep killing it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:55

Nana check out a couple other podcasters that support us, and

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:00

we want to give them some support.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:07

Hey, fellow Scarlet, true crime listeners.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:10

I'm CC the host of a new true crime podcast, sooner state, true crime as a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:16

born and bred Oki I'll cover cases based in my wonderful home state of Oklahoma.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:21

The term sooner actually refers to tutors in the land run.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:24

My state's very first true crime.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:27

New episodes are released twice a month in apple podcasts and most

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:30

podcasts ups or visit our website, anchor.fm/crime state to listen now.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:36

So come away with me to my crime state on the sooner state true crime podcast.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:43

And please stay sooner safe out there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:45

Y'all.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:51

Hi everyone.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:52

I'm Ariel Cooksey, host of malice.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:55

When violent acts occur, we tend to think the predators are monsters.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:00

Surely no human could do such things, but if we're honest, only

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:04

humans commit malicious crime.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:07

And if you're like me, you want to know why to find out.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:11

Join me at malice grabber.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:13

You listen to podcasts by.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:18

Hey, y'all I'm Brandon Hall.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:21

I'm one of the hosts of music city, nine 11, a podcast about the good,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:24

the bad, and the dark side of nine 11.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:27

Dispatching me and my co-hosts are 9 1 1 dispatchers.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:30

With over 60 years of experience, join us as we play 9 1 1 calls and discuss this.

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Oh, did I mention that we get dark nine 11?

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What's your emergency?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:15

you can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at music city nine 11, and we're

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:20

downloadable on every podcast platform.

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:24

We want to give a shout out to the pod all

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:27

the time podcast network that we Scarlet TCP are proud members of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:34

other members of the pod, all the time podcast network, our creative

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intuitive, another digital citizen history of a haunting round and round the podcast.

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Real AKA truth podcast, ruck up podcast, random unnamed podcast.

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Surburban.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:53

Three peas in a podcast, Ross sex podcast.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:57

I think we're doing it podcast.

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:59

So if you like what you're hearing from Scarlet TCP, check

Brittney Sherman: 00:47:02

out these other shows that members of the pod all the time podcast network.