G-LS3Z87V2FY Casey Anthony Part 1 | The Disappearance of Caylee | Scarlet TCP - Scarlet TCP
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Episode 1

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Published on:

17th Jan 2020

The Casey Anthony Saga, Part 1

The Casey Anthony trial for the death of 2-year old Caylee Anthony captivated the nation from 2008 to 2011. An early contender for the trial of the century, Scarlet hosts Sonia Meza-Leon and Brittney Sherman take a deep dive into the history, the lies, and the deception that made Casey the prime murder suspect of her own daughter from the start. Listen to episode 1 of the new True Crime Podcast, Scarlet!

Sources: Casey Anthony, an American Murder Mystery, Marcia Clark Investigates podcast, CourtTV, Wikipedia



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy
Transcript
Brittney Sherman:

The statements made in this podcast are meant to be taken

Brittney Sherman:

strictly as opinion and not as statements of fact or evidence in the case as

Brittney Sherman:

discussed this episode of Scarlet contains graphic details about decomposing

Brittney Sherman:

bodies and violence against children.

Brittney Sherman:

Listener discretion is advised.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Hey podcasters

Brittney Sherman:

welcome to the new true crime podcast.

Brittney Sherman:

Scarlet.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So today Bernice Sherman and Sonia, Emilio are talking

Sonia Meza-Leon:

about the case of the Anthony saga.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

There's

Brittney Sherman:

been so much covered about this.

Brittney Sherman:

Well, it's what 10, 11 years old, 2008 is when it originally

Brittney Sherman:

happens when Kaylee went missing,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it feels like it was so much earlier than that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I feel like this was like a 1990 story that happened, but you're right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It wasn't actually that long ago that would've put me just moving to wait.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Now I would've been eight.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

No, that was when I moved to LA.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I would have been here in LA for 10 years, which is why I was not paying

Sonia Meza-Leon:

attention other than the fact that it happened in Orlando, which is

Sonia Meza-Leon:

my hometown and, um, and all sorts of crazy shit happens in Orlando.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

In Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

There's definitely an underbelly to Orlando college life there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, and that's where UCF is.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's where UCF is.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's bigger, bigger school now.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I went there with a much smaller, I mean, everything was like dirt,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

parking, lots, dirt, everything.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It was awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, it was a small school, but now, I mean, you know, obviously they're

Sonia Meza-Leon:

doing well with their football team, but it's still the same champions.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't know what it is about the south.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And just being in a place where it's hot in general, people get really

Sonia Meza-Leon:

sweaty and then they start doing a lot of drugs and they started drinking

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and it just all goes downhill.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

From there, you see so many weird things happen.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't know what

Brittney Sherman:

it is.

Brittney Sherman:

The he and come that will mess with people.

Brittney Sherman:

I mean, dehydration does crazy things to people.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't want to think.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't think Casey Anthony though.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't think what happened to her is a result of the drugs

Brittney Sherman:

and alcohol and the party.

Brittney Sherman:

I think she's telling you waiting.

Brittney Sherman:

I think that this was if not completely planned out and of course we'll get

Brittney Sherman:

to all the theories and everything.

Brittney Sherman:

This wasn't a, I don't think this was a.

Brittney Sherman:

Drunken mistake.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't

Sonia Meza-Leon:

think this was a whim that happened.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I agree.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I, well, I don't, I not necessarily a whim being, it was unplanned,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

but I don't, I'm not even sure if it wasn't just an accident.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, but there are so many weird, weird pieces to this and, and all you can

Sonia Meza-Leon:

think of is if it was, if she wasn't guilty, why did she lie about it?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, I mean, the lies

Brittney Sherman:

so many lives and bursts so well, and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they never stopped well, if you had an accident, which is what

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it appears may have happened, one of the theories anyway, you know, what's wrong

Sonia Meza-Leon:

just saying it was an accident, unless you were doing something in the moment

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that the accident happened, that you could get in trouble for which, you know, that

Sonia Meza-Leon:

kind of was for emo, you know, what is the point in lying and just saying she

Brittney Sherman:

drowned well, yeah, obviously that is kind

Brittney Sherman:

of her biggest defense theory.

Brittney Sherman:

Her family's defense more or less.

Brittney Sherman:

Uh, but, okay, so, so let's back up a little.

Brittney Sherman:

This was obviously huge news that happened in 2008, went to trial.

Brittney Sherman:

It really officially in 2011, uh, kindly went missing and

Brittney Sherman:

it was, it was everywhere.

Brittney Sherman:

It was the trial of the century, 15 years after OJ.

Brittney Sherman:

So pretty fast how we had two of those and then 15 years, uh, I mean, I absolutely

Brittney Sherman:

hated this, but I remember it so vivid.

Brittney Sherman:

She had the name all around.

Brittney Sherman:

Thanks, Nancy.

Brittney Sherman:

Grease up the top mom.

Brittney Sherman:

Like that was just her.

Brittney Sherman:

She called the top mom.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't remember.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't know because Nancy, grace came up with it and Nancy, grace loves

Sonia Meza-Leon:

headlines.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She led us to, yeah, she's young a lot.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that was most of what I heard about it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

My mom was, I did not remember this until just recently when I talked to her

Sonia Meza-Leon:

about it, but she said she watched this.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, my mom's 85 now and

Brittney Sherman:

she watched this case.

Brittney Sherman:

Um, every minute of it, she said, and it was on the local cable network.

Brittney Sherman:

So she got up and everyday she watched the whole

Sonia Meza-Leon:

trial and, um, you know, it was just, it was really close to home

Sonia Meza-Leon:

because I have people who are close to it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I knew exactly the areas where they were talking about where they live,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

where they found the child's body.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, it was really close to home.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And, um, I think that's where we back up and we kind of go back to the beginning at

Sonia Meza-Leon:

least of how this first came to fruition.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So we've got our timeline, June 15th, 2008.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, Caylee Anthony was last seen with her great-grandfather and an assistant.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Apparently that is the last day that anyone saw Kaley

Sonia Meza-Leon:

alive outside of the immediate

Brittney Sherman:

:

family, her Kaylee's mom.

Brittney Sherman:

:

Casey, of course.

Brittney Sherman:

:

And Casey's grandparents or Casey's parents.

Brittney Sherman:

:

Keely's grandparents saw her alive the next morning or, sorry.

Brittney Sherman:

:

So on the 16th.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

On June 6th, especially the date that she went and got it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think there's a little distraught you're right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And there's a little discrepancy there on when I get Sydney, we

Sonia Meza-Leon:

know what time she lasts are.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then the father clearly, or a Casey's father, he had a different

Sonia Meza-Leon:

remembrance, whether it was 12 o'clock in the afternoon or two o'clock

Sonia Meza-Leon:

in the afternoon, whatever it was.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and then

Brittney Sherman:

all of a sudden, I think Casey and Kaylee

Brittney Sherman:

go missing, I'm not mistaken.

Brittney Sherman:

Correct.

Brittney Sherman:

Kind of.

Brittney Sherman:

So this is already aware.

Brittney Sherman:

It just, it gets insane because you're at the timeline starts where Casey

Brittney Sherman:

wakes up mid morning, late morning.

Brittney Sherman:

So she sees her dad around 12, 12 30, something like that, and is taking

Brittney Sherman:

Kaylee to daycare so she can go to work.

Brittney Sherman:

So Casey can go to work at universal studios, which we'll talk about later.

Brittney Sherman:

So George claims that he sees them leaving the house.

Brittney Sherman:

And that is roughly the last time that Kaylee is seen alive.

Brittney Sherman:

So this is where the timeline already starts to get messed up.

Brittney Sherman:

Casey says she's going to work.

Brittney Sherman:

Cell phone pings essentially say that she either one never left the

Brittney Sherman:

house or two left the house, but stayed in the neighborhood in 2008.

Brittney Sherman:

So cell phone identification, location, isn't exactly where it is

Brittney Sherman:

now, but it was still pretty good.

Brittney Sherman:

It could hone in pretty specifically where she was.

Brittney Sherman:

So if he wasn't at the Anthony home, she was pretty close to it.

Brittney Sherman:

And George is saying that she left.

Brittney Sherman:

So that.

Brittney Sherman:

What we essentially have to go

Sonia Meza-Leon:

on.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Did she go, were there any other areas around her home where she

Sonia Meza-Leon:

would have gone besides her own home?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Like, would she have gone to a neighbors or did someone live by them?

Brittney Sherman:

So there was some sort of relationship with the neighbors.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't know for sure that they were close enough, that Casey would have actually

Brittney Sherman:

gone next door to visit with them.

Brittney Sherman:

They come up later in the story where they say that Casey very strangely approached

Brittney Sherman:

them and asked to borrow a shovel, which they thought was very out of character.

Brittney Sherman:

Why would Casey need a shovel?

Brittney Sherman:

I want you to just use a shovel, but the family had.

Brittney Sherman:

There are some weird things.

Brittney Sherman:

The family had a history of burying pets in their yard.

Brittney Sherman:

So if a pet died, but I don't think a pet died.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't have any record that there actually had any pets at that time.

Brittney Sherman:

So if she did leave the house, if she did go to a neighbor's or if she just

Brittney Sherman:

stayed in her car nearby, it's pretty evident that she didn't go to work what

Brittney Sherman:

she did with Tayley to be determined.

Brittney Sherman:

But we know that she came back home because there was

Brittney Sherman:

activity on the family computer.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So was Kaylee's daycare near their home.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And within that perimeter of the cell phone,

Brittney Sherman:

I don't think so, but I don't actually know.

Brittney Sherman:

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman:

I took it as it was extra closer to universal where,

Brittney Sherman:

where she doesn't actually

Sonia Meza-Leon:

got it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, that would make perfect sense that she's going there every day or not.

Brittney Sherman:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So we established that that's the last time anyone say

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they saw Caylee alive, um, a variety of things happen over the next month.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, but what doesn't happen is nobody sees K uh, and I think that's pretty apparent.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

What it sounded to me was that Kaley Casey kept pushing her parents off

Sonia Meza-Leon:

because they kept wanting to see, um, their granddaughter and she kept

Sonia Meza-Leon:

saying, oh, we're here, we're there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She went on trips.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

We should

Brittney Sherman:

establish that Casey had lived at home up until

Brittney Sherman:

real recently, and she spent a week with her new boyfriend and then she

Brittney Sherman:

moved in with her best friend, Amy.

Brittney Sherman:

So she moved Kaylee with her, which yes.

Brittney Sherman:

Okay.

Brittney Sherman:

Strange kind of, but the strangest part to me is, I guess I'm sure

Brittney Sherman:

Casey at the time was 22 years old.

Brittney Sherman:

She wanted to move out on her own, whatever.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't know what her reasons there were, but to your point about, no one

Brittney Sherman:

had seen Kaylee we've talked about this.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't understand how for 31 days, no one raised the flag.

Brittney Sherman:

Where's this two year old child.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, well, I mean, that's, that's the weird part.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And, and in that month as well, where was Casey?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Because her mom said so on July 15th, next point in the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

timeline is where Cindy calls.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Casey's mom calls the police and says, um, my daughter is here.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I want someone to come and arrest her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's still in the car.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's stolen money.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and the car smells like a dead.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Thinking being the police of course, or you know, that inflames

Sonia Meza-Leon:

them, they get over there quickly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and then that's where the conversation starts and this, this pickup of Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So right before that, it sounded like, and so you wonder, okay, Casey, obviously

Sonia Meza-Leon:

wasn't there the whole time she had walked in because her father had called

Sonia Meza-Leon:

her and said, whatever's happening, you know, gaming her, I'm giving her

Sonia Meza-Leon:

an ultimatum and said, you have to come and tell us what's really going on.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that was when she finally showed up there.

Brittney Sherman:

So yes, kind of a little more backstory behind that.

Brittney Sherman:

Casey did all sorts of various suspicious things in the 31 days

Brittney Sherman:

before the police were called, including stealing her parents' car.

Brittney Sherman:

Allowing it to run dead in the middle of the road, it was then towed.

Brittney Sherman:

The tow yard reported one reported to the police to report that it had

Brittney Sherman:

a very strong odor coming from it.

Brittney Sherman:

The police notified the family, the Anthony family, George and Cindy

Brittney Sherman:

came and picked up the car and then actually call the police after to your

Brittney Sherman:

point about George indicating, Hey, tell us what's going on, but called

Brittney Sherman:

the police because she sold the car.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So it wasn't that the car that she always drove.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So what's always strange to me in this case.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And, and I, I I'm like she stole the family car.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She stole the car that she was driving, that they gave her permission to drive.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And this is one of those situations where you've kind of

Sonia Meza-Leon:

22 year old girl living at home.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Who's in under complete control of her parents.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, you know, and sh they're essentially, you know, when she doesn't act in the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

way that they want, you know, they say she's still in the car versus

Sonia Meza-Leon:

just using it when things are normal.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I don't, did they not have another car?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Because it sounded to me like that car was either she was using it or

Sonia Meza-Leon:

was assigned to her because then if we're saying, oh, it's the, we found a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

dead body in the smell of dead bodies.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Why, why are they not more concerned because it

Brittney Sherman:

is their car?

Brittney Sherman:

Well, in addition, I would think, I don't know if it was her car or not, but

Brittney Sherman:

Kaylee's car seat was in the back seat.

Brittney Sherman:

So it was certainly a car that if it wasn't Casey's car that wasn't

Brittney Sherman:

assigned to her by the family, it was certainly one that was used

Brittney Sherman:

frequently to transport Kaylee.

Brittney Sherman:

Right.

Brittney Sherman:

So I agree.

Brittney Sherman:

It raises some weird questions, but I think if nothing else, it might be what

Brittney Sherman:

possibly, why it was reported stolen is because Casey had been moved out.

Brittney Sherman:

She wasn't living there and there was evidence of breaking back into the house

Brittney Sherman:

and taking a gas can to fill up the car.

Brittney Sherman:

So at the very least, it may have been employed just to get Casey's

Brittney Sherman:

attention because I would highly suspect it wasn't Casey's car.

Brittney Sherman:

It was probably a family car that was then towed.

Brittney Sherman:

And the family we're trying to get a hold of Casey and this

Brittney Sherman:

was the best way to do it.

Brittney Sherman:

Got it.

Brittney Sherman:

That's a suspicion.

Brittney Sherman:

It seems like a logical option.

Brittney Sherman:

Got

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So on July 15th, Cindy calls the police, the shit hits the fan, essentially.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And they finally got Casey to in the house to a point where she supposed to

Sonia Meza-Leon:

answer the question, where have you been?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Where's your, where's our granddaughter and what she finally breaks down and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

says, she's been kidnapped and she's fake crying or whatever she does that she

Sonia Meza-Leon:

magically tells a lie, which is pretty unbelievable in the scheme of things.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think what we'll establish over the conversation is how

Sonia Meza-Leon:

great a liar she actually was.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She took people to the nth degree in her lies, um, you know, from having a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

job and walking them into the building and then getting to the end of the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

corridor and saying, oh, I don't have a job or, oops, I didn't do this.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Or, oh, I'm pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I'm seven months pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Previously to this Virgin.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So let's establish the July 15th.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

This is when that moment happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Cindy calls the police, uh, I'm not mistaken.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

The police come, they have a conversation with Casey, even on the 9 1, 1 call.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Cindy says the nine 11 operator wants to talk to Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Can you, Casey gets on the phone and flatly, you know, just is

Sonia Meza-Leon:

able to convey this message.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Is that it?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

My daughter has been kidnapped.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And you know, even, even in this first conversation, she just sounds really

Sonia Meza-Leon:

flippant and annoyed that she even asked to talk to the police about it.

Brittney Sherman:

Casey, if you watch interviews with her,

Brittney Sherman:

honestly, if you just see pictures of her, she has an altar effect.

Brittney Sherman:

It's.

Brittney Sherman:

I almost feel like the synapses aren't connecting

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and definitely got problems for sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think even her mom and her dad will readily admit that, you know, and this may

Sonia Meza-Leon:

be part of trying to smooth things over.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I

Brittney Sherman:

don't want that to be misconstrued when I say that

Brittney Sherman:

as that Casey's unintelligent quick little aside and backstory, Casey

Brittney Sherman:

does not have a high school diploma.

Brittney Sherman:

She reportedly was a pretty good high school student.

Brittney Sherman:

She was expected to graduate.

Brittney Sherman:

So weeks before graduation, Casey stopped attending high

Brittney Sherman:

school, but never told anyone.

Brittney Sherman:

So as graduation was approaching, Cindy started asking Casey,

Brittney Sherman:

Hey, where's your and down.

Brittney Sherman:

Why haven't I gotten any information from the school?

Brittney Sherman:

And Casey lies to her says, oh, there was a mix up.

Brittney Sherman:

It's all fine.

Brittney Sherman:

Don't worry.

Brittney Sherman:

It'll get taken care of the day of graduation just before graduation.

Brittney Sherman:

Cindy finds out that Casey hasn't been attending and cannot graduate.

Brittney Sherman:

She will not get a diploma.

Brittney Sherman:

But that doesn't deter Casey from going to graduation.

Brittney Sherman:

No one else in the family knows only Cindy in case he now.

Brittney Sherman:

So she goes to graduation, dressed in regular street, clothes walks across

Brittney Sherman:

the stage, but doesn't get a diploma.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, I think the important part about this and what you

Sonia Meza-Leon:

just said is it's is, uh, oh, along the way, here with the lies that Casey tells

Sonia Meza-Leon:

even prior to Kaylee, but even through this missing moment, Sydney appears to be

Sonia Meza-Leon:

a bit compliant on these conversations and she, she maybe she doesn't know about the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

lie and what the lie entails, but when she finds out, she definitely, you know, falls

Sonia Meza-Leon:

in line and is supportive of Casey in.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And you can see that in the.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

In the, in the recordings of Cindy talking to Casey when she's in

Sonia Meza-Leon:

jail and it's this really strange icon that contact that happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And it's, you know, Casey saying, oh, come on mom.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Like you're asking me things that you already know the answer to.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that was what I really felt that she was saying to her, with her,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

her facial, uh, you know, her eyes.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, everything was, you know, don't go down this road

Sonia Meza-Leon:

because you know what happened?

Brittney Sherman:

Getting back to the timeline.

Brittney Sherman:

We know that July 15th, that's when the police were called July

Brittney Sherman:

16th, Casey is officially charged and leading up to her arrest.

Brittney Sherman:

Moralized come out.

Brittney Sherman:

She sees oh, official explanation for where Kaylee is.

Brittney Sherman:

Is that the day that he went missing, Casey dropped her

Brittney Sherman:

off at her regular Manny.

Brittney Sherman:

Zanny the near Zenata Fernandez Gonzalez.

Brittney Sherman:

So the police said, okay, well, cool.

Brittney Sherman:

Take us to Danny's house.

Brittney Sherman:

And well, of course Jenner.

Brittney Sherman:

So they go to Sandy's house.

Brittney Sherman:

Sandy's not there.

Brittney Sherman:

Kaylee says, well, I went back to pick her up after work and Sandy

Brittney Sherman:

refused to give her to me right there.

Brittney Sherman:

Don't you call the police immediately?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You would think so.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

This is where I.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, I think that Casey mixes in truth and lies, there may have been

Sonia Meza-Leon:

something happened not necessarily with denied because she says that

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they don't even know each other.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But I think that this was the impression of something that

Sonia Meza-Leon:

may have actually happened.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So it was a night a really does or someone has this kid then, you know, why would

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they w why, what would Casey be doing?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I want to talk a little bit now that we know that Casey's

Sonia Meza-Leon:

in jail, she's been arrested.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They started looking at Casey's past.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They started looking at the history of the family, the relationship, obviously

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it's got some interesting, um, God components to it, the way that the family

Sonia Meza-Leon:

works, George and his life evidently.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I wanted to be, eh, from childhood one or two B a M a character at a theme park.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, he was a policeman for a while.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then he was actually a private security guard.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

After that, I feel like this family is from New York or upstate.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They seem like they seem like they're in Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

There are a lot of new Yorkers, a lot of people from the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Northeast moved down to Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So it wouldn't surprise me, but they definitely have an accent.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's not Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And so maybe that was there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So you've got George in his life.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, he was married prior to Cindy hanging

Brittney Sherman:

out in, back up.

Brittney Sherman:

I'm still on this.

Brittney Sherman:

He wanted to be a character at a theme

Sonia Meza-Leon:

park.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I, you know, at first glance, I think he's an alright looking guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, he seems like he's got it together, but apparently he's

Sonia Meza-Leon:

had some challenges in his life.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, his own father fired him from the family business.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And so he then became a police officer that went fine.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, and then evidently when you're secure, you have a lot of police officers or

Sonia Meza-Leon:

officers will transition into security work because as a police officer, you

Sonia Meza-Leon:

will automatically get paid a higher rate.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So there there's that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and he was actually, I forget, or he was a security guard, but

Sonia Meza-Leon:

he was an actually, when this happened, he was a security guard

Sonia Meza-Leon:

at some private, um, agency.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So you've got George and then you've got Cindy, who's a nurse.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then what we really never know about very much is the brother Lee, right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Lee doesn't come up much at all, which is probably good for him.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean that, unless he's really not involved, you know, save them the trouble

Sonia Meza-Leon:

of having to live a life of Casey's.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Does my sister.

Brittney Sherman:

Possibly it's reported that Casey and Cindy were extremely close.

Brittney Sherman:

They were best friends, mother and daughter, to be honest, I didn't even

Brittney Sherman:

know that she had a brother until late in my research into this that's how

Brittney Sherman:

far I feel like he is separated from

Sonia Meza-Leon:

this case.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

The only thing I really knew about him was that he's not Kaylee's father and there

Sonia Meza-Leon:

was that's a conversation we'll have.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, and there was a conversation in the trial about, you know, abuse,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

but, um, you know, I think it was just, you know, Casey trying to do anything

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she could to get out of the situation

Brittney Sherman:

after the Casey takes the officers to

Brittney Sherman:

Zanny, the nanny is playing.

Brittney Sherman:

No success there.

Brittney Sherman:

The officers then say, all right, we'll retrace your steps.

Brittney Sherman:

Take us to work universal studios.

Brittney Sherman:

And as we mentioned, Casey, hasn't worked there.

Brittney Sherman:

She hasn't worked there in years.

Brittney Sherman:

As a matter of fact, there's Sonia, you worked at universal

Sonia Meza-Leon:

first off.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't understand why they let anybody in to let and then let her

Sonia Meza-Leon:

walk in to show anybody where the I'm.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She

Brittney Sherman:

straight up, walked into an office building,

Brittney Sherman:

talk to her way through security.

Brittney Sherman:

And trimming the officers to an office where she claims she

Sonia Meza-Leon:

worked.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think part of this honestly, was that there were officers with her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's the key, because if she was Joe blow, you can't get any universal studios.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But I think the, the officers definitely help them, you know, help

Sonia Meza-Leon:

guide this a bit and let them in.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And, you know, as what everybody says, you know, the craziness of her

Sonia Meza-Leon:

walking, some of these officers in through buildings through many, many

Sonia Meza-Leon:

doors, this is so-and-so's office.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Hey, hello to people.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If you know, you know, and then finally getting to the very end of the corridor

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and saying, I'm sorry, you're right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I actually don't work here.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And you know, what's amazing is you have to understand or try.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I can't understand the kind of person who would need someone on a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

lie that far down a road, because in my life, my biggest fear is

Sonia Meza-Leon:

getting caught in lies, not eating.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And not that you tell lies a lot.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I could never imagine knowing from the beginning that I was telling

Sonia Meza-Leon:

a lie that I could ever get caught in that to me is terrifying.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And for her to take it to that degree, it means that she has absolutely no

Sonia Meza-Leon:

fear and no conscience and doing that.

Brittney Sherman:

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman:

I agree.

Brittney Sherman:

One thing that always puzzled me though, it was almost like

Brittney Sherman:

a game to the police officers.

Brittney Sherman:

They knew this whole time, she never worked

Sonia Meza-Leon:

at universal.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So back to the Casey and her and her, her magical lie telling, um, which is

Sonia Meza-Leon:

obviously indicative of some kind of, you know, criminal minds, Ted, Ted

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Bundy, you know, all your famous, you know, criminals, they, you know, they

Sonia Meza-Leon:

would, they would spend these, you know, these tales and it was just amazing

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that they just sounded so, so very much like they believed in themselves.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think that was the way that they could really get others to.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think the difference there, head

Brittney Sherman:

bunny had almost a cult-like following of women.

Brittney Sherman:

He was.

Brittney Sherman:

Attractive.

Brittney Sherman:

He was charming.

Brittney Sherman:

He was intelligent.

Brittney Sherman:

No, one's going to accuse Casey Anthony of being a member of

Sonia Meza-Leon:

no, no, not at all, but as I just, I walked in, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and I was playing the podcast and these guys are about Casey Anthony and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it's sort of a frat party environment.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They're talking about hot.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She is.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that was brought up in that podcast many times.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I found it fascinating that that's still an important thing

Sonia Meza-Leon:

to talk about whether it's making fun of her or whatever.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But, um, at the end of the day, I think someone thinks she's

Sonia Meza-Leon:

attractive and, and eminently pretty

Brittney Sherman:

persuasive.

Brittney Sherman:

She's very persuasive almost to the point of, I don't know,

Brittney Sherman:

sociopathic to a certain extent.

Brittney Sherman:

And I think that speaks back to the flat aspect that was referencing

Brittney Sherman:

and her attractiveness, I think ultimately that might have played a

Brittney Sherman:

factor in the result of the trial.

Brittney Sherman:

Oh,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, I mean, no doubt.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I, you know, when you watch her in the, in the courtroom, she definitely is different

Sonia Meza-Leon:

than all the pictures and the pictures where she's partying and she's doing

Sonia Meza-Leon:

her hot bod contest with her boyfriend DJ anonymous, which is the dumbest name

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I've ever heard, because why do you want to be anonymous if you're a DJ?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and his friend Clint, uh, from long island who, uh, essentially

Sonia Meza-Leon:

we're probably, uh, you know, I think driving some of this.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Her personality had changed over time.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

As she had met these guys, evidently she was a strong, she

Sonia Meza-Leon:

believes strongly in marijuana.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She didn't actually smoke.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She, you know, would chastise her friends were smoking pot.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then all of a sudden, when she started hanging out with whatever,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Joey, something, Joey, whatever it Clint, you know, she wanted him to start

Sonia Meza-Leon:

partying and she wanted to start, you know, living, living the more fun life.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that was probably right around the time where Kaylee had, you know, it wasn't

Sonia Meza-Leon:

in the picture because it's easier to live that kind of life without a child.

Brittney Sherman:

We know the lies.

Brittney Sherman:

We know the change in personality.

Brittney Sherman:

We know the police know that she's full of it,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

which must've been so fun for them.

Brittney Sherman:

It was like a game seriously.

Brittney Sherman:

Now we're now Casey's in a corner.

Brittney Sherman:

She's arrested.

Brittney Sherman:

She hires an attorney, Jose.

Brittney Sherman:

She has her first name court, of course, pleads not guilty at this point.

Brittney Sherman:

Kelly's only missing.

Brittney Sherman:

So she's initially charged with neglect.

Brittney Sherman:

The child endangerment, her bond is set at $500,000.

Brittney Sherman:

Then the judge ultimately decides to ban release to all media.

Brittney Sherman:

As you can imagine, hot and girl in Florida, the media is all over it.

Brittney Sherman:

Missing little adorable blonde hair toddler, the heart

Brittney Sherman:

of America at this point.

Brittney Sherman:

So the jerk says no one's allowed in which I think maybe goes against Casey.

Brittney Sherman:

I think Casey, the attention.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh, absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

By the way, I just want to make sure that we call out that the first judge was

Sonia Meza-Leon:

actually taken off the case, talking to a blogger judge because, you know, God

Sonia Meza-Leon:

forbid somebody dogs in the media, I, you know, let's not talk to the media at all.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I am sure that that sort of propel this into a non-media or

Sonia Meza-Leon:

attempting to be non-media plus how are they ever going to find a jury?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and I think ultimately what they did is they brought a jury in, since the

Brittney Sherman:

media was blocked from courtroom proceedings.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't know how they found out, but it was leaked to the media,

Brittney Sherman:

probably through her attorney, maybe through someone else attached to

Brittney Sherman:

the case, maybe her family, that her defense was going to be Haley drum.

Brittney Sherman:

So at this point, Casey has not been charged with murder.

Brittney Sherman:

They don't even know that she's dead, but there's all of a sudden speculation out

Brittney Sherman:

there that she drown in the family pool.

Brittney Sherman:

Why would there be speculation?

Brittney Sherman:

Why would that have gotten out if she's not even dead yet?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah, well, yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So who would have, who would, he would be compelled to meet that kind of thing

Sonia Meza-Leon:

who would benefit from that information?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's really, I mean, ultimately Casey cause that's going to be her defense

Sonia Meza-Leon:

so likely it would have been a defense theory, but you know, I think lots of

Sonia Meza-Leon:

people were talking about the pool and the ladder and how, you know, those

Sonia Meza-Leon:

things happen all the time in Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's hot Casey and the dad were alone at the house together with

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Kaylee and that he was the last one.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's our, I'm not surprised because I think they were

Sonia Meza-Leon:

jumping to all kinds of things.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I, if I'm not mistaken that area in the back where they did find,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

so eventually they find Kaylee's body, I think six months in, right?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman:

After multiple calls to the police though, by a meter reader

Brittney Sherman:

who reported finding any suspicious bag off to the side of the road.

Brittney Sherman:

So it took three phone calls for someone to actually come out and investigate.

Brittney Sherman:

This two particular things are really suspicious about this one.

Brittney Sherman:

We know EquiSearch, which is a nationwide.

Brittney Sherman:

Certain volunteer search organization who dedicates people to looking for missing,

Brittney Sherman:

missing children, searched the area high and low, but as Salish your from Florida,

Brittney Sherman:

you know, that it turns into swamp land.

Brittney Sherman:

The searches started around hurricane season, tropical storm season.

Brittney Sherman:

So the area around the Anthony home was underwater.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It would have been really swampy in that heat.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And in that kind of the heat coupled with the, the, just the vast amount of water in

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Florida, I don't know if you've ever been, but when you fly in, it looks more like

Sonia Meza-Leon:

there's just little speckles of land in the middle of all these masses of water.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So it doesn't take much.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, you're talking about everywhere along every side of the road, you've

Sonia Meza-Leon:

got these, you know, probably retention ponds and these little, like two or three

Sonia Meza-Leon:

inch puddles of water, but it adds up, but water, you know, standing over an

Sonia Meza-Leon:

area over time is definitely going to increase the decomposition of a body.

Brittney Sherman:

Here's a question for, we can establish, we can agree.

Brittney Sherman:

Water probably covered that area.

Brittney Sherman:

A quarter mile from Nina Anthony home, a body was found a quarter

Brittney Sherman:

mile from the Anthony home.

Brittney Sherman:

How.

Brittney Sherman:

That's like across the street practically.

Brittney Sherman:

Oh, is that, how, how did it take

Sonia Meza-Leon:

so long?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, also, so even if you've got the body in the area where that was underwater, at

Sonia Meza-Leon:

one point, it would, I would assume that if you've got dogs in the area tracking,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they would have hit somewhere along the path from the house to that area and it

Sonia Meza-Leon:

leaked, and then they would've stopped.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They would have stopped at the water's edge, whatever that water's edge

Sonia Meza-Leon:

is, they would've stopped at it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But nowhere around the house, did they really hit on anything with the exception

Sonia Meza-Leon:

of two places they hit, they hit in the house and by the back of the car, by

Sonia Meza-Leon:

the trunk of the car for cadaver, they also, the first time the dogs went out,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

also hit in the backyard for a cadaver.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

When they went back to the house, they did not find they did not have that same hit.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

There's some idea that it was that that cadaver was beyond that car again.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, what I don't understand, and also it seems really weird.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Is that, that body and who knows how long that would, that timeframe would

Sonia Meza-Leon:

have been because Kate, the, the girl little girl would have had to decompose.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So how long she must've been in the car the whole time and someone is established

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that she died on the 16th, but I don't know if that's actually the case.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Did she actually die on the 16th or was she kept alive for a period of time?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If you only have the bones, I'm not sure how you know that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't

Brittney Sherman:

know, obviously, and we know she was missing, but that's why

Brittney Sherman:

for so long, Casey was only charged with.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah, because we didn't know if he actually had a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

body because she could have been running around Zanny the nanny.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Exactly.

Brittney Sherman:

It's.

Brittney Sherman:

Hmm.

Brittney Sherman:

And when you talk about the car, so one of the prosecutions lightening, your

Brittney Sherman:

odds that they thought would really be the silver bullet to get Casey.

Brittney Sherman:

Is that there was significant evidence of a decomposing body in the back of the,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

on the back of the car.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think they establish that through the trunk, some

Brittney Sherman:

gas.

Brittney Sherman:

Right?

Brittney Sherman:

So, so there was essentially like a scene in the carpet of

Brittney Sherman:

the back of the car in the trunk.

Brittney Sherman:

There was gas that was collected as he said, right.

Brittney Sherman:

Probably most telling a wall, multiple people report.

Brittney Sherman:

A horrible smell that is akin to, or exactly that of a decomposing body.

Brittney Sherman:

Right.

Brittney Sherman:

And it started really when the car was towed, someone reported that there was

Brittney Sherman:

an odor, the person didn't, the tow yard didn't know that it was decomposing body,

Brittney Sherman:

but reported the odor to begin with.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then that's when they said they found garbage in the back of the car

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and for duke Creek, Casey credited.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If, if that, if she did put that body in the car, if she killed Kaylee and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she put that body in the car and that body decompose for her to have the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

forethought to then take the body out, put it somewhere wherever, and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

then he'd be back at Casey credit.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, she must've thought about this cause she put the garbage in

Sonia Meza-Leon:

there to cover up the decomp smell.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, you're like, well, cause I waiver here.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I say, she's an idiot.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh, I can't believe she, excuse again, I have the fear of being caught in a lie.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I'm like kind of, you know, to be so bold and bring.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and then to spend these lies to the point where she exhausts

Sonia Meza-Leon:

everyone, but she does put some thought into some of this because

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she's thoughtful about the garbage.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She must've been, she that wasn't coincidentally, she put it in there

Sonia Meza-Leon:

because you want, wanted to cover up the smell if that was the case.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think the other thing that in the back of the trunk of

Sonia Meza-Leon:

the car that I found the most.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Was it, they found hair and that hair had, what's called a death band on it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that death bin is only on hair that is attached to a decomposing body.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's the law, there's a black line there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And so they found Kaley's hair because it was that it was the mother

Sonia Meza-Leon:

line where they did the analysis.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It could only be in the mother line.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So that haircut have only come from Casey or Cindy or Kaylee.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And it was untreated, which means that, so it had to have been Kaylee's.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I think it was someone I

Brittney Sherman:

mentioned real quick, talking about giving credit

Brittney Sherman:

where credit's due to Casey and she planted the seeds previously by

Brittney Sherman:

reporting to her dad, or maybe it was.

Brittney Sherman:

That her car smelled like she hit a dead animal or there was a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

dead animal in there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, yes, exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She told her dad to, to, I don't know why too, because maybe one was a little

Sonia Meza-Leon:

li two squirrels caught up in her engine and they got, you know, when she started

Sonia Meza-Leon:

the car, they got ground up in there.

Brittney Sherman:

That's freaking disgusting.

Brittney Sherman:

Okay.

Brittney Sherman:

Thank you.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't look at me about Prius cause I love my Prius and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

there's no reverse world that entered by the way, just for the best thing.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's freaking awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But, uh, that's what Casey told her dad was when he asked her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Cause he finally, you know, getting her to that house and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

like tell us what is going on.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that was her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Explain the decomposition, smell to squirrel is caught up on my engine

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and must've gotten wrapped up in.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, hamburger, meat gross.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She told her friend Gonzalez not Gonzales, something to Dallas.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She told one of her friends that she had thought she had hit a squirrel.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I don't even know why she was compelled to tell him to change the story.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If she told her dad one story about two girls and the engine.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And why didn't you just tell her friend it's so many lines.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I dunno.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's exactly

Brittney Sherman:

right.

Brittney Sherman:

You see that speaks to Casey is coming, but not super

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Selligent.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

He's not because it's so much easier just to remember one story.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Like, I mean, I, again, I'm mortified being caught in a lie,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

you know, so I just don't ever lie.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's, you know, I wish I was good at it because I'd probably wouldn't

Sonia Meza-Leon:

hurt my mom's feelings so often.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But you know, at the end of the day, it's a lot of work to remember

Brittney Sherman:

lies.

Brittney Sherman:

Poor mom.

Brittney Sherman:

I know.

Brittney Sherman:

Well, I try to be complimentary all the time to everybody, you know, Hey,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

come on.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

All right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So back to the car, back to the hair, back to the calm, back to all these

Sonia Meza-Leon:

stories shooting as the police go and, you know, continue to talk to the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

family by the way, this poor family.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Do you watch the video of these, you know, Cindy and outside their house being

Sonia Meza-Leon:

off of, you know, the media, because they're just I'm word choice there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It was really awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, they were getting these people, you know, and they were getting

Sonia Meza-Leon:

them back and they're wearing Shirley.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yes, it was really awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And the media is either being supportive or unsupportive, but

Sonia Meza-Leon:

either way, they're getting all this attention that they don't want.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They're wearing a t-shirt with

Brittney Sherman:

Kaylee on it.

Brittney Sherman:

The court of public opinion made their decision.

Brittney Sherman:

Well, before this went to trial as with many high profile

Brittney Sherman:

cases, it's the norm these days,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That has nothing real.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, at the end of the day, you know, sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Casey's in jail, go to the courthouse or go to the gym protest, but these

Sonia Meza-Leon:

poor, the family, you know, I don't know how you, you get through that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And also in this moment are grieving for your granddaughter

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that your daughter likely killed.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, that's really, you know, and I think I want to back up a bit, cause I

Sonia Meza-Leon:

think we, we can talk a little bit about Sidney and Casey and their relationship.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And now I feel, I feel really strongly that Cindy knows

Sonia Meza-Leon:

something more than she's saying.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that she realized after a certain point, I don't think that there was a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

point where Casey could have told her the truth, but I think she suggested to her,

Brittney Sherman:

um, cause there wasn't

Sonia Meza-Leon:

much time where she came home and they were talking

Sonia Meza-Leon:

about it and then she went to jail.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So anything that her jail time would have been recorded.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But I think that Cindy tinny in Casey's relationship, they were best friends.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Like you said, Cindy knew about her not graduating.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh wait, let me just remind everybody.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Cindy did not tell anybody else in the family, she don't lie to the family.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She kept that light going and.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

This is exactly the same thing that happened when they

Sonia Meza-Leon:

found out Katie was pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They found that case.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

He was pregnant because she told at first she said, oh,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

you're getting a little chubby.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh, no problem.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, I couldn't be pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I'm a Virgin.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Turns out to see immaculate conception.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Seven months in.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Somebody else in the family mentioned that Casey looks pregnant and Sidney

Sonia Meza-Leon:

now is blowing it off and Casey too, and she's seven months pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And when you're that little under seven months pregnant, I mean, sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You may look like, you know, you're not really, everybody carries babies

Sonia Meza-Leon:

differently, but I can't imagine.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then what happens in two months when the baby comes out, like

Sonia Meza-Leon:

you still got a reality to this happening, this is not going away.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I kind of feel like that's the way Sydney and Casey Casey approach.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Everything is like, you know, you just keep pushing it off.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It will go away.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And in this case, it's kind of what happened because you know, her road

Sonia Meza-Leon:

to freedom because she was acquitted.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, she, she pushed through it somehow or another, every day she

Sonia Meza-Leon:

pushed through it and she created more lies, but it, it happened for her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's kind of amazing to me, you know, Sydney.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

These realities and then finding out after the fact must've been really

Sonia Meza-Leon:

hurtful for the family, and then they must not have trusted them.

Brittney Sherman:

That parlays perfectly into where you and I

Brittney Sherman:

diverge a little bit on this.

Brittney Sherman:

I have a lot of theories.

Brittney Sherman:

I wrote several down.

Brittney Sherman:

Then I'll talk about later because I don't really know what happened, but

Brittney Sherman:

one of my theories is that Cindy knew, I don't think Cindy was involved in the

Brittney Sherman:

death of Katie, but I think she knew was she involved in the coverup or the

Brittney Sherman:

barrier maybe, but Cindy only called 9 1 1 to report Kaylee missing after

Brittney Sherman:

Casey told her brother wheat let's think about this 31 days, the grandparents

Brittney Sherman:

don't see their granddaughter.

Brittney Sherman:

They are a strange, somewhat from.

Brittney Sherman:

Casey comes over.

Brittney Sherman:

They call the police to report Casey for stealing the car.

Brittney Sherman:

Kaylee is not with Casey.

Brittney Sherman:

So in my conspiracy theory, if Cindy and Casey knew what happened to Kaylee, it

Brittney Sherman:

was still contained with the two of them.

Brittney Sherman:

Then Casey, essentially let it slip to leave that she doesn't

Brittney Sherman:

know where her daughter is now.

Brittney Sherman:

The lids off

Sonia Meza-Leon:

now, now

Brittney Sherman:

him.

Brittney Sherman:

She can't have to need to hold it in because

Sonia Meza-Leon:

now it's out there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

True.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I just, I can't, I don't understand how somebody can you live.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They pretty much lived or up until right before or the, I guess the last

Sonia Meza-Leon:

time they saw them was in June and then they moved out right after that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So they, she has been skirting them, but the night

Brittney Sherman:

before she went missing, Kaylee and Casey

Brittney Sherman:

stayed with the Anthony's.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Got it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

By the way, let's back up a moment and talk about how Casey

Sonia Meza-Leon:

was going to afford an apartment.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She really didn't have a job.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think this is one of my biggest hiccups in this whole thing is

Sonia Meza-Leon:

how is she going to move anywhere?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Does she have a car because she doesn't have any money.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If she has money, how was she getting it?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It sounded to me like she had gone into the Anthony's house

Sonia Meza-Leon:

a couple of times it was stolen money, but what else is she doing?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, she exists with no money.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

No, you're

Brittney Sherman:

right.

Brittney Sherman:

You can't.

Brittney Sherman:

But the first week that she moved out, she was staying with her boyfriend.

Brittney Sherman:

Then she moved in with her.

Brittney Sherman:

Uh, whether or not there was some sort of a rent agreement.

Brittney Sherman:

She was going to say rent free until she got a job.

Brittney Sherman:

No idea.

Brittney Sherman:

Or Casey always has a backup plan.

Brittney Sherman:

She was later arrested after she was released on bail, which is strange because

Brittney Sherman:

with a half million dollar bond, some random person came up and paid for it.

Brittney Sherman:

But after she was released from jail for the endangerment of Kaylee, she was

Brittney Sherman:

rearrested for stealing more than $1,400.

Brittney Sherman:

And writing fraudulent checks from her friend, Amy, who she was living with.

Brittney Sherman:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So her way to pay Amy was to take any of his

Sonia Meza-Leon:

money and pay her back with it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Casey's the Dick Dick move, bro.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Let's go back a moment.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

God, Casey, out of jail.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

How has that hospital who paid the bond?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Is that even like, I am like, I think there's something much

Sonia Meza-Leon:

deeper to Casey than we're all thinking about because she's lying.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's able to do this, you know, all these.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, is she involved in like prostitution?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Is she involved in like drugs?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well,

Brittney Sherman:

very fair question.

Brittney Sherman:

So a bail bondsman named Berliner Pedea paved Casey's half a million dollar bail.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't, I don't get it right.

Brittney Sherman:

Exactly.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't know why I end

Sonia Meza-Leon:

up getting

Brittney Sherman:

a bail bondsman or bounty hunter.

Brittney Sherman:

He was a male boss or whether I don't really know either, but

Brittney Sherman:

from what I've heard, thank you.

Brittney Sherman:

Wikipedia and investigation discovery.

Brittney Sherman:

She wasn't

Brittney Sherman:

half a million dollars and he is not the only person that posted

Brittney Sherman:

bond because he posted on, she was released, fitted with an ankle monitor.

Brittney Sherman:

She was rearrested for stealing the money from her roommate.

Brittney Sherman:

Her parents came up with an additional 500,000.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Her parents in Florida came up with an additional $500,000.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Her

Brittney Sherman:

parents retired police officer turned

Brittney Sherman:

security guard who wanted to

Sonia Meza-Leon:

be a theme

Brittney Sherman:

park character, and her nurse that you can

Brittney Sherman:

is calling to be goofy.

Brittney Sherman:

And her nurse

Sonia Meza-Leon:

mom,

Brittney Sherman:

a half a million dollars, they came up with to pay.

Brittney Sherman:

How does that happen?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It doesn't, it just doesn't.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, today we're fucking driving a sunburn.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If you had a half, a million dollars, you wouldn't be

Brittney Sherman:

driving a sunburn know I'll talk later about how she

Brittney Sherman:

picked her up at certain speeds.

Brittney Sherman:

Well,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that's all wrapped up in it is I

Sonia Meza-Leon:

think she would do anything.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think she probably was first off.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

We know she was spending eight hours a day, five days a week for

Sonia Meza-Leon:

two freaking years saying that she was working at universal.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Where was she going?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

What was she.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

At the

Brittney Sherman:

very least find another job.

Brittney Sherman:

What do you do?

Brittney Sherman:

How boring is that?

Brittney Sherman:

You don't have any money.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She was creating emails with her employees that universal

Sonia Meza-Leon:

leaving them around the house that is so much work to keep that lag, going to

Sonia Meza-Leon:

get up every morning and get dressed.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's just easier

Brittney Sherman:

to work a real job.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, you have money unless you're already getting money.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So that's what I'm, you know, this is a young girl.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's 22, whatever she thinks she's hot

Brittney Sherman:

in Orlando.

Brittney Sherman:

Bahar.

Brittney Sherman:

She's hot.

Brittney Sherman:

She's Orlando.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's an Orlando eight, you know, she's an ally and that's okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But you know, in good for her, that's great.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She was in the right place.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, but I just, I can't, I mean, maybe they took a mortgage out on

Sonia Meza-Leon:

their house, but their house was not worth half a million dollars either.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

No, I mean, there, there are houses far and few between not for the cop and the.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So with the Sunbird, it just doesn't make a ton of sense, you know, unless these

Sonia Meza-Leon:

people were going to use her, if they were going to use her for something, or

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she knew someone, something was going on, I think these are where things

Sonia Meza-Leon:

worth the things that we should think about, because I just don't understand

Sonia Meza-Leon:

how she was going to move anywhere, unless she just really had no idea.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, she never did think about the end game because that's how our lives work.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, she just thought she'd lie our way until she can just walk away from it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that's a trait of a narcissist.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's just, you know, definitely disregard, you know, and it, and she'll

Sonia Meza-Leon:

get through it because she's heard it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's amazing.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean,

Brittney Sherman:

uh, in my opinion speaks to also the family

Brittney Sherman:

is protecting Casey mother.

Brittney Sherman:

Nothing knew anything.

Brittney Sherman:

They still went out of their way to do everything they could to protect Casey.

Brittney Sherman:

And that speaks to how she felt she was on top of.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh, well, absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, she, I guess she had a history of, they had a really weird family dynamic.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Cindy was a definitely the, you know, the queen of the house too,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

or just kind of run around, just agreeing with Cindy, which is fine.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't mind that relationship at all though, who really

Sonia Meza-Leon:

ruled the house was Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, you know, if anything happened, Casey would come in,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they would have a conversation.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It wouldn't take much to get her set her off.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She would get excited about something and you know, where

Sonia Meza-Leon:

are you accusing me of this?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, I think they got excited about the gas cans by the way.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I think we should talk about the Gaskins later, but I just wanna

Sonia Meza-Leon:

remind everybody on the gas cans was duct tape and that is exactly

Sonia Meza-Leon:

the same duct tape that was found on

Brittney Sherman:

or near Caylee's body.

Brittney Sherman:

Let's actually talk about the gas can now, because that's the part that

Brittney Sherman:

I can't, I don't understand a big deal was made about the gas cake.

Brittney Sherman:

She broke into the house and stole a gas can, which to me.

Brittney Sherman:

What's the big deal with that.

Brittney Sherman:

We'll talk about the duct tape that may or may not tie in

Brittney Sherman:

later, but what was the big deal?

Brittney Sherman:

So she took a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

gas cannon.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think this is the parents trying to maintain control over her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And it had probably had a lot to do with Kaylee because they

Sonia Meza-Leon:

wanted to see their granddaughter.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And they were probably worried about her in, you know, Casey's care because

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they know their daughter, you know, they would try to, they would use anything

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they could to try to regain control.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So if it's a stupid as well, the only thing she did was take the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

gas can, and that's all I can do.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But I think that they were, you know, even with the car, you know, she was

Sonia Meza-Leon:

using the car and then once they, you know, she pissed them off and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

they're like, well, the car was stolen.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I think it was really, you know, and she, I don't know if she moved

Sonia Meza-Leon:

out because she wanted to move out or because her, they wanted her to move

Sonia Meza-Leon:

out because it was one conversation I had heard where she had told her friend

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that her mom was making her move.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But I really don't believe that because I don't think the mom would have

Sonia Meza-Leon:

wanted that little girl to go anywhere.

Brittney Sherman:

I agree.

Brittney Sherman:

I disagree.

Brittney Sherman:

I think Keeley became their world.

Brittney Sherman:

And when you have a two-year-old toddler,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it usually does.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I agree with you then maybe they want to give you see to move out.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But I don't think Casey would want to move out without the little

Sonia Meza-Leon:

girl, because that was her control.

Brittney Sherman:

Yes or no.

Brittney Sherman:

I mean, well,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

definitely were control over her parents and that was

Sonia Meza-Leon:

probably how they were getting money.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman:

Probably wanted a job.

Brittney Sherman:

So

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she must've somebody paid

Brittney Sherman:

for daycare.

Brittney Sherman:

We talked about everything leading up to the case.

Brittney Sherman:

We ready to talk about the trial

Sonia Meza-Leon:

a year.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Think so.

Brittney Sherman:

You want to cover a little more.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that's, you know, the trial sort of speaks for

Sonia Meza-Leon:

itself, but I feel like that we've, we've already kind of hit the pinnacle.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Well, the top of this was the lies, finding the child, George, the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

guy who found the child and then even suggesting that it was him,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

which I really don't agree with.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

We talked about the proximity of the child being found to the house.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You can talk about the evidence with the body.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think we should.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Can we, if we can talk about that for a second, I think

Brittney Sherman:

that's where, yeah, so that's essentially what I

Brittney Sherman:

mean is we've heard all these things about everything that led up to it,

Brittney Sherman:

and we can talk about the evidence that's presented and some of the

Brittney Sherman:

inflammatory things that are brought up

Sonia Meza-Leon:

at the trial.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So let's talk a little bit more about the body.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And when they found the body six months into this, they found the body, the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

little Kaley's body she was in found, like you said, a quarter of a mile from

Sonia Meza-Leon:

their house and an area by the road.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Florida's pretty much underwater anyway.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So it doesn't take much or under sea level, but it doesn't take

Sonia Meza-Leon:

much for the water to settle.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So I'm not surprised that they made not have found this sooner, but I find it

Sonia Meza-Leon:

hard to believe that somebody somewhere.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And for this guy to call twice and nobody doing anything was kind of crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, he readily admits that he took a stick and stuck it into the skull

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and lifted it up to see what it was.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And, um, I'm assuming that there was probably some hair attached to

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that skull or some hair matting.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's what normally happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Somebody I listen to a podcast or I've watched an interview with the foreman

Sonia Meza-Leon:

and he talked about how the pictures that they saw were so grizzly, but I was

Sonia Meza-Leon:

having a hard time with that because I thought we just found a bag of bones.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So, yeah.

Brittney Sherman:

Okay.

Brittney Sherman:

Let's discuss that bag of bones.

Brittney Sherman:

I'm a little unclear on that also because the first two times that

Brittney Sherman:

the meter reader called the police, he reported seeing this bag that he

Brittney Sherman:

thought maybe there was a body and when,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

how am I going to go out the first time

Sonia Meza-Leon:

when there's a body in a bag?

Brittney Sherman:

I mean, Greg.

Brittney Sherman:

They were probably getting tips up the wazoo at this time, going

Brittney Sherman:

everywhere, Caylee Anthony sightings.

Brittney Sherman:

So you have to be strategic in the ones you want to look at, but a

Brittney Sherman:

quarter mile from the Anthony home, I would think that's when they

Brittney Sherman:

were put at the top of your list.

Brittney Sherman:

So here's my theory.

Brittney Sherman:

He reported seeing this bag went underwater, went through the winter

Brittney Sherman:

water, succeeded the bag opened up.

Brittney Sherman:

So when he came back, the third time the bag was open and he could see into

Brittney Sherman:

it that there was truly a dead body.

Brittney Sherman:

Like he suspected all along and it wasn't just in a bag.

Brittney Sherman:

It was, she was wrapped in a sheet or some sort of cover

Brittney Sherman:

Winnie the Pooh blanket and then placed into a bag.

Brittney Sherman:

So it's also possible animals got to the bag and opened it up.

Brittney Sherman:

That's how he would have been able to, as he said, And touch the

Brittney Sherman:

school with a stick and manipulate the crime scene, ultimately.

Brittney Sherman:

And I think it was two bags.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't

Sonia Meza-Leon:

think it was just one.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

There was the white laundry bag.

Brittney Sherman:

That's clearly from the Anthony's house, establish that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then I either

Brittney Sherman:

that bad was inside of a black garbage bag or the

Brittney Sherman:

reverse, but I'm assuming if the white

Sonia Meza-Leon:

would have been, I would have been on the outside, it

Sonia Meza-Leon:

would have been a lot easier to see.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think I was the black bag is on the outside, but canvas inside,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

which honest to God that bag opening up that black garbage bag.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It must've been a mess in there.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, you've got water and heat, the decomposition, I mean, you've

Sonia Meza-Leon:

got probably a little mat of hair.

Brittney Sherman:

Um, something was offensive enough to where it

Brittney Sherman:

freaked the jury out because a lot of them talk about hope, how

Sonia Meza-Leon:

bad those pictures were.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, and it was a child.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And obviously everybody's really sensitive to that

Brittney Sherman:

because no matter what, you've got a little bag of child here

Brittney Sherman:

and point of clarity, um, objective.

Brittney Sherman:

In the courtroom right now.

Brittney Sherman:

Uh, just want to make sure we're clear on this.

Brittney Sherman:

I want to retract the previous statement.

Brittney Sherman:

I said the meter reader called three times.

Brittney Sherman:

It wasn't until the fourth time that he called and then they

Brittney Sherman:

actually came out no more times.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Why are you kidding me?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You're the one from Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You tell me it's not

Sonia Meza-Leon:

it's not like you're washed up on the shore.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, I know you can see a lot, but picking a skull up out sick.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't know if, I mean, I don't know if he did that the first

Brittney Sherman:

or the fourth

Sonia Meza-Leon:

time, but any of those times, like I would have

Sonia Meza-Leon:

been screaming, bloody murder, like get your ass out of here.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

What

Brittney Sherman:

possessed someone though to say, I think that's a skull.

Brittney Sherman:

Let me lift it.

Brittney Sherman:

Uh,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I would do that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I love

Brittney Sherman:

and live to see him on the wall.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't want to

Sonia Meza-Leon:

child school.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Do you mean like a headway on a wall?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Is that looking at herd of like a hunter?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's somebody I don't

Sonia Meza-Leon:

full skeleton, not a doctor's skeleton.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

This is clearly small.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And there it's small.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's not an animal.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I would probably still actually now I retract that when I was younger, I would

Sonia Meza-Leon:

definitely want to talk, but maybe not now, because I would definitely have

Sonia Meza-Leon:

respect for a crime scene because clearly human stuff around it, you can see imag,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

which means it's probably in or near it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then you may see the duct tape that was apparent.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, that, I think what I think what helps me understand the timeline

Sonia Meza-Leon:

a little also is that duct tape and the condition of the bones, because

Sonia Meza-Leon:

you know what they say is she must've done it almost immediately after she

Sonia Meza-Leon:

was missing, because it would have taken that long for everything there to

Sonia Meza-Leon:

decompose, like, but I still don't know if they can nail it down to an exact day.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that's hard because when you try to establish alibis, if it happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Within a 72 hour range.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's hard to establish some of these alibis through that whole time period.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So, you know, again, the jurors were really from that, the reason

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that they couldn't convict her is because they just didn't feel like

Sonia Meza-Leon:

no spoiler alert so many years after.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And they say, I know they say that, uh, Jon snow died.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That's

Brittney Sherman:

more recent.

Brittney Sherman:

So upset.

Brittney Sherman:

A lot of people.

Brittney Sherman:

I know I will never watch game of Thrones again, by the day, I'm not

Brittney Sherman:

going to go back and rewatch the show go from being the most popular show

Brittney Sherman:

of all time to one of the most hated

Sonia Meza-Leon:

because they ruined the end ruin.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Did I really?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

We will get it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

oh, it was a beautiful show.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I mean, seriously,

Brittney Sherman:

we digress back to the case,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

you know, we've got Casey in jail now we've

Sonia Meza-Leon:

got the body so we can hear.

Brittney Sherman:

We started talking about the duct tape.

Brittney Sherman:

I know this is a future for you, and it was a huge sticking

Brittney Sherman:

point for the prosecution.

Brittney Sherman:

So I'm going to let you own this because I had actually spoke a few holes in

Brittney Sherman:

here, at least I think again, but I know it was a really big deal for you.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It is because, well, let's just say let's just

Sonia Meza-Leon:

establish that, that right.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If somebody is saying, oh, well we don't know how she was killed.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I'm not sure how this couldn't be considered a homicide.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

If you look at the duct tape being honored around her

Brittney Sherman:

face.

Brittney Sherman:

So hopefully by the way, the prosecution's main argument as to how Kaley was

Brittney Sherman:

murdered is that she was suffocated with duct tape over her nose or mouth for,

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that that is one of the things that the jury

Sonia Meza-Leon:

really had a hard time with because that I think was a bit farfetched.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that they had, I don't think you Suffolk it's moon with duct tape.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that you put that on to shut them up.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I never saw that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She said that I can do it with duct tape, but that was a

Sonia Meza-Leon:

by-product of something else.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that the Xanax.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It was whatever it was.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Um, you know, I do think that she was probably given something and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she probably, but then why would you have duct tape it off if you put, if

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she, if she died from you giving her something, what she wouldn't be, what,

Brittney Sherman:

what's the point of the duck?

Brittney Sherman:

So the body's found there's duct tape around her jaw or on

Brittney Sherman:

her

Sonia Meza-Leon:

jaw holding it on pretty much to her

Sonia Meza-Leon:

skull, but I don't think it was

Brittney Sherman:

over at the time.

Brittney Sherman:

It wasn't actually over for nose and mouth or where her

Brittney Sherman:

nose and mouth is in her school.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think it was small part of it was, but the

Sonia Meza-Leon:

majority was stuff up in her hair.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Oh, wait, the hair works, I guess when you die like that in an outside situation.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Cause I listened to the body farm bypass and it's amazing is

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that you've got a skull rolling on the ground in whatever way.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And the heroine, a decomposable fall this back kind of just land around it.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And it makes like a horseshoe around the head.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's like a hair mat.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So that's where you could even, it's all, you know, cause it had been there for

Sonia Meza-Leon:

so long in that humidity, in that heat, you know, it had all just fallen back.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So that's the assumption, but they say that that would have

Sonia Meza-Leon:

fit over her mouth and her nose.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

But you know, you don't know if that I think again, I don't think

Sonia Meza-Leon:

that duct tape was the weapon.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I think that duct tape was, um, something to try to get,

Brittney Sherman:

keep the little girl

Sonia Meza-Leon:

quiet.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that's the only reason, honestly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And here's the weird part about this duct tape

Brittney Sherman:

by the way.

Brittney Sherman:

That

Sonia Meza-Leon:

duct tape is not very common.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

The kind of duct

Brittney Sherman:

tape that was used, they found it in the Anthony's home.

Brittney Sherman:

They found it

Sonia Meza-Leon:

on the signs, the freaking flyers that they put

Sonia Meza-Leon:

up well around the neighborhood.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Was that exactly that tape?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Like, are you kidding?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Look what you use the murder weapon.

Brittney Sherman:

Agree.

Brittney Sherman:

Suffocated her to put the signs up, trying

Sonia Meza-Leon:

to find her, like it's just really, really gross in a year.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So you've got the duct tape.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So that's my theory about the duct tape.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't think it was used for suffocation.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I can do is used for keeping her quiet, but then if she was already dead, why

Sonia Meza-Leon:

would they need to keep her quiet?

Brittney Sherman:

If you think it's to help keep her quiet.

Brittney Sherman:

And I don't think you actually might be honest something because that

Brittney Sherman:

might play into one of the other theories is that there were traces of

Brittney Sherman:

chloroform found in the car chloroform.

Brittney Sherman:

I don't think a common thing to keep around the house.

Brittney Sherman:

It's

Sonia Meza-Leon:

not.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And they found searches on the computer that she had looked up how

Sonia Meza-Leon:

to chloroform, how to make chloroform

Brittney Sherman:

also how to suffocate a child and get away with it.

Brittney Sherman:

I'm not saying that verbatim, but that's just what it was.

Brittney Sherman:

She legitimately search for that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's such an idiot, like why you don't need to look that up?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

What is the word?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Bull.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Okay.

Brittney Sherman:

We're jumping backwards a little bit.

Brittney Sherman:

Now.

Brittney Sherman:

She erased her internet searches.

Brittney Sherman:

The day that Kaylee went missing the family's computer internet.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

How would she know how to do that?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She doesn't know how to do that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Come

Brittney Sherman:

on.

Brittney Sherman:

She had two years of doing nothing.

Brittney Sherman:

She probably played around on the computer.

Brittney Sherman:

She had a MySpace page in 2008.

Brittney Sherman:

No one was on and

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Maybe she didn't know how, so then how do they find those searches,

Brittney Sherman:

forensic, whatever.

Brittney Sherman:

So

Sonia Meza-Leon:

she raised it and then they actually don't deeper.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And that's the part that's weird to me because that's one of those

Sonia Meza-Leon:

moments where simply wait until like, you know, oh, I was actually looking

Sonia Meza-Leon:

for chlorophyll from the dogs and it came up with chloroform and I'm

Sonia Meza-Leon:

like, oh my God, lady, did you just

Brittney Sherman:

take credit for that stupid?

Brittney Sherman:

I actually stand corrected the night.

Brittney Sherman:

It wasn't erased.

Brittney Sherman:

The day that Kaylee went missing, it wasn't a risk.

Brittney Sherman:

The day that Kaylee was reported.

Brittney Sherman:

A month later.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Uh, but who day?

Brittney Sherman:

Right?

Brittney Sherman:

Because Casey

Sonia Meza-Leon:

didn't live with live at the home.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

That would have been Cindy and uh, oh, would she, as a grown ass woman have

Sonia Meza-Leon:

to look up how to smother a child.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's not looking that up, Cindy.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She's snow.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And she's erasing it for her.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And for Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You think Sidney knew how to figure out what the history

Sonia Meza-Leon:

would be if Casey erased it?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Like, what we're saying is Cindy erased it Sydney, or I don't know

Sonia Meza-Leon:

if Cindy would know how to do that.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Would

Brittney Sherman:

she?

Brittney Sherman:

What about George?

Brittney Sherman:

Me, but

Sonia Meza-Leon:

I don't think George likes Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

She, I mean, she really, but you know, what was weird about her?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

They, they appear to have a good relationship Jordan, when she's there

Sonia Meza-Leon:

at the jail and they're talking to her and she's like, you know, the one

Sonia Meza-Leon:

thing I miss most was talking to you and I'm like, man, you're talking about

Sonia Meza-Leon:

later, like 10 minutes later, when you're accusing him of like molesting

Sonia Meza-Leon:

you, what, what happened there?

Sonia Meza-Leon:

You know, he's your best friend right here.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And then, you know, if it serves your purpose, you can say that he molested you.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

It's really, really weird.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

And I think that was the last straw for George is he's like, I

Sonia Meza-Leon:

have been so good to you and so tolerant, and this is how you treat

Brittney Sherman:

me.

Brittney Sherman:

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman:

I think that's probably a good spot for us to call it for Casey Anthony.

Brittney Sherman:

We really dug deep into what the evidence was and all of the things

Brittney Sherman:

that led up to the trial, including some of the things with the trial.

Brittney Sherman:

I think for the next episode, we'll probably dive into really what our

Brittney Sherman:

theories are and what some of the theories of the prosecution and what

Brittney Sherman:

the defense ended up going with.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

Exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon:

So stay tuned, parlor, Scarlet podcasters.

Brittney Sherman:

All right.

Brittney Sherman:

Thanks for joining us a special shout out to John McGrew for our theme song

Brittney Sherman:

and Juan Mesa Leone for our artwork.

Brittney Sherman:

Be sure to follow us on twitter@scarletpodcastandshootusanemailatscarletmurderpodcastsatgmail.com.

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About the Podcast

Scarlet TCP
True Crime podcast featuring the unique perspective of a couple of ladies working in the entertainment industry with stories to share.
The Scarlet true crime podcast is a female driven true crime show presented from the unique perspective of life-long crime junkies working in the entertainment industry. In Scarlet, Sonia Meza-Leon and Brittney Sherman unravel stories and evidence from a variety of sources and put their own spin on what happened in a thoughtful, and entertaining presentation.

Special thanks to:
John McGrew for writing the intro and outro song.
Juan Meza-Leon for logo design.
Renevee Romero-Villegas for additional artwork design.

Part of the Pod All The Time Podcast Network.
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About your hosts

Brittney Sherman

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A murderino since early in life, Brittney grew up in Wisconsin and her fascination with true crime started from her parents. Her dad’s favorite show was Unsolved Mysteries and he loved reading about true crime, and her mom’s favorites were 20/20 and Dateline. Originally freaked out, Brittney grew into the fascination over the years, and particularly the psychology of the criminals behind the crimes. 



Now, a veteran of the entertainment industry, Brittney has worked behind the scenes on Emmy winning shows and #1 movies. Driven by her passion for entertainment, and the ability to provide content as escapism, whether they are on their commute to work, grieving and seeking solace, or blocking out pain in a hospital bed, Brittney strives for excellence and the ability to entertain at the highest level.

Sonia Meza-Leon

Profile picture for Sonia Meza-Leon